Dads Dating After Divorce
Dating after divorce isn’t what it used to be—especially when you’re a dad. The rules have changed, the world has changed, and now you’ve got kids in the mix. Join Dallas and Jude as they share real-world strategies and insights from their work with dads and men at BlackBoxDating.com and TheDivorcedDadvocate.com.
Dads Dating After Divorce
11 - Make Invitations, Not Demands: Redefining Leadership in Love
The world watched as Joe Jonas and Sophie Turner's divorce unfolded across international headlines, with Turner declaring she'd "never return to the US" and Jonas filing to keep his daughters stateside. But beneath this celebrity spectacle lies a powerful lesson for every divorced dad trying to navigate the complex world of dating and co-parenting.
This episode dives deep into the art of the invitation—a revolutionary approach to dating that transforms how divorced dads connect with potential partners. We unpack why expressing what you want as an invitation rather than an expectation creates space for genuine connection while maintaining your masculine energy. Through practical examples and honest conversation, we explore how this subtle shift changes everything from scheduling dates to establishing boundaries.
For divorced dads balancing parenting responsibilities with dating lives, we address the critical questions: How do you assess whether a potential partner has thoughtfully created space for dating in her life? What signals reveal whether someone will respect your established family dynamics? And how can you lead authentically without slipping into controlling behaviors that repel the very connection you seek?
The conversation takes an illuminating turn when we contrast leadership with control, offering a framework that allows divorced dads to maintain their vision while remaining open to collaboration. This approach creates relationships where feedback flows freely and both parties feel valued—the foundation for any successful blended family.
Whether you're just starting to date after divorce or struggling with relationship patterns that leave you frustrated, this episode offers a refreshing perspective that creates more freedom, connection, and authenticity in your dating life. Discover how detaching from outcomes while staying true to your values transforms not just your relationships, but your entire approach to life after divorce.
Hello and welcome to the show. Divorced or Dad's Dating After Divorce. My name is Jude Sandvall. I'm the founder of the Divorced Advocate, my co-host, dallas Bluth, founder of Black Box Dating. How are you doing, dallas? I'm doing great. How are you doing?
Speaker 2:Jude.
Speaker 1:I'm doing good, but apparently I have too many podcasts going on and I can't remember which one I'm recording at the moment.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, that's a challenge sometimes, Well having kids and work and all of that stuff. So the dads that are listening I'm sure have a little bit of grace for me around that and know how that brain just kind of diverts off into all different directions. But anyway, I would try to keep it back focused on dads dating after divorce, because we got some fun conversation to chat about today and I'll give you some background, because I didn't on how I found this. So Joe Jonas and Sophie Turner are two kind of mega stars. One's an actress, one is a pop music star, and guess he probably I think he does some acting too. I don't know really much of what they do.
Speaker 1:I know my daughters have listened to some of their stuff and talked about some of their stuff, but so I read something recently that she said about her never coming back to the united states. I guess she lives in the UK and that's where she's from, and so I had read that article earlier in the week thinking, oh interesting, because I had read about their contentious divorce months and months ago, and this, I guess, was last year. It's all been finalized. So I started to do some research into it because I was thinking well, she lives over there, he lives over here. How is that going to work in parenting and whatnot? And so then was reading a little bit more about it and thought this would be a good topic for us to talk about how people are co-parenting. You have different lives and so, you know, I put together the little perspective of what we could talk about and I thought it was really, really interesting because, for when I sent it to, you came back with some really great ideas hey, we could talk about this and we could talk about this. And I'm thinking, oh, my gosh, this is really interesting because those weren't the top. Those things that crossed my mind weren't like the top two, one or two things that crossed my mind. So that's cool. This is going to be a great conversation because you, being the dating and relationship coach, have a perspective that is really honed in, honed in on on some specific stuff with the dads and how they can mitigate some stuff. In mind is a little bit of a different perspective, right, having, you know, having been a dad, talking with thousands of dads and also been dating as a dad for the last decade, right, so let's dive into it. It's just really, really interesting.
Speaker 1:So for the listeners, especially the ones that are the older guys like me, right, that don't know they were married like me, right, that's, I don't know they were married. I'm not sure how long they were married, but they have two young daughters. They got separated last year and immediately became contentious because what Joe Jonas did is he filed to keep his daughters in the United States, basically, and then that created a bunch of uproar and with the pundits and media and social media and all that crap which we're not gonna get into because we don't know how a divorce proceeds and there's so many idiosyncrasies in every single person's divorce that when these public divorces come out, we don't really know the dynamics of them. So we don't really know. But what I will say is I respect the fact that he, as a dad, beginning from like right from the beginning, saying, hey, I want to be spending time with my daughters, I'm going to make sure to protect this is how I read it that I'm going to protect my daughters, protect my time with my daughters.
Speaker 1:I don't know if that's in fact what he was doing or if there were issues behind the scenes, et cetera. People were saying he's trying to take his daughters from her. You know all that, all that crap. But from a dad's perspective, I appreciated that he was engaged immediately in that and perhaps protecting his time with his daughters because it is really important. So that was one of my first things when this whole thing happened. And then listening to her say, well, I'm never leaving the UK, I started to think, well, okay, how does that work with parenting time, with, like that's not just dropping them off after school to somewhere else. They're living in a completely different country for part of the time and in another complete different country part of the time. So that's where my mind and then I started thinking, well, like, how do you date doing that and how do you? There's so many things that go into that.
Speaker 2:So I just want to jump in and say using a word like never is drawing a really hard line in the sand saying I'm never leaving this country.
Speaker 2:I'm never coming back over there. I mean, if you're going to co-parent, if you're going to co-operate in anything, the words never need to be reserved for you know, absolutely cannot cross that line situations when you're an international, you know, actress, musician or whatever. The idea that location is never, I mean, is just kind of silly. You know, that's not what the lifestyle is like, what she's never going to set foot in the US again for her career. That just seems ridiculous career. That just seems ridiculous. So the fact that she's saying never to me kind of strikes more of a, you know, a clearly confrontational and you know, kind of picking a fight in a way, and that please speak into this. But that is the last thing that you want to be modeling for your children is the fact that you're going to draw arbitrary hard lines against your former partner and model this for the kids. But you tell me what you think, because you've been through the divorce.
Speaker 1:You've been through the trenches, yeah, so that's a really good point, and I think that might go a little bit to why he took some preemptive action. And unfortunately, I see this all the time, and I hear this all the time of a parent moving a kid or doing something just unilaterally. That's just not, it's inappropriate, it's not healthy for the kids, it's just not the way to do something. So hearing her talk about this on the back end like that and making statements like this makes me think that maybe there is a little bit of an issue behind the scenes that we don't see or hear. But he did also just come out recently on a podcast and was talking about what a good mom she is. So I have a great deal of respect for him and, as far as I can see, neither one of them have really bad mouthed each other. So that is definitely definitely a positive thing.
Speaker 1:So, but but also to your point about saying never, then this article from the New York Post, page six, shows the two of them walking around in New York together, right, so? So apparently that never didn't last, never, ever. It lasted until she had to come back to New York, or maybe that was the drop off, who knows Like who knows how this is working. But this is a little extreme example because maybe I can't ever see a parenting plan like this working and being really a positive for kids. Because it's the time frame, because their kids are like four and two, so it's really really young, and how do you spend months at one place and months at the other? But again, I'm not a superstar. Maybe there's a benefit to this for why they did that.
Speaker 2:It's actually the nannies and the handlers that are providing the security for the children. They're the ones flying them back and forth. They're actually providing the stable structure at this point for the kids.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it almost seems like a Brad Pitt Angelina Jolie setup where it's yeah, you are the quote-unquote parents of record, but there's a whole lot of other things and people and dynamics going in to that which most everybody listening to this and you and I are just never going to have another understanding. But I think it is interesting to listen to some of that perspective of hearing. So why would you just unilaterally, then just go move to another country and do that without taking the time to talk with your soon to be ex about, hey, what is going to be the most effective way for us to go about doing this? So that's something. That is something. That that is something. So here's here's a perspective that I was thinking is one of my top ones is, when you're out in the world of dating, then after divorce, and you are inevitably going to be meeting other women that are divorced and have children what is their parenting time, what is their structure? And kind of some questions to ask around. That is how did you come up with this parenting time, what is their structure? And kind of some questions to ask around.
Speaker 1:That is how did you come up with this parenting time? Why did you decide to do this? What does this look like in practice? How is your you know some of those things to try to get this perspective of? Hey, do they have a couple things? Do they have the kid's best interest in mind? First, because if eventually let's talk about, depending on what your long-term goal is, is your long-term goal to blend a family? And if it is to blend a family, you want to know that that person's mindset is around family first. They're going to be making those decisions. If they go and they do something like this took off to Florida or the UK or whatever, and then work things out working backwards from that, that might be a sign to pay attention to, because that's probably a decision-making process that is not isolated to just the parents or just the parenting time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I'd say that, you know, coming back to making an absolute statement like never. You know that that's a bit of a red flag to hear someone say that it's great, to hear that they're talking well of each other, speaking well of each other, that that bodes well. I am a little bit whenever I see somebody essentially making a power play or a power move. For me, that's oftentimes a signal that the person is compensating for a situation in which they don't feel very powerful. People that feel like they have power in a situation they're confident they don't need to make power moves. They'll set boundaries, but a boundary is simply saying no to something, but to say that I'm never going to do this or we're going to unilaterally make this move.
Speaker 2:People that have a deep-seated sense of confidence in themselves simply don't need to behave that way. We only puff up our chest and turn our language into absolute type statements when we're trying to shore up what feels inside of us like a weak position. So for me, when I'm dating a woman that has kids, or going on a date with a woman that has kids, I definitely listen to the way that she talks about her ex, to the way she talks about the situation. To be honest, though, most of the time my only question when I'm dating a single woman is what percentage of the time do you have your kids? And at the moment I'm simply asking it from a selfish point of view is are you available to actually date?
Speaker 2:Because the women that have kids 100% of the time. I mean maybe if they make a good income and they're happy paying for babysitters, but a lot of the time I've struggled to find women that have kids 100% of the time that are thinking that way. It's sort of like, well, I just have to join their life if I'm going to do it.
Speaker 2:So single moms that have no dad in the picture a lot of the times, I'm like well, unless there is some cosmic connection happening between the two of us, I'll probably keep looking, because there's almost no way for me to get to know them as an adult, to assess whether or not we're good with each other, before I get introduced to any even just the corners, the fringes of their adult life. I've, I've, seen it as a huge red flag when I get introduced way too early into into, you know, a woman's family life. I shouldn't, I shouldn't be introduced to that for quite a while, in my opinion, several months at least.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so that's yeah, well, that's a lot of good information, but that's a really good point. I wasn't necessarily thinking about going down that route, but I think it's a. I think it's a good, important one to to go down, both for the dads and also for paying attention to. To hear dating with which is that? That's time management, part of it it is, and you pointed out the situation. If a woman has the kids 100% of the time, what is her dating strategy? So this is a question that I will ask up front. All the time is.
Speaker 1:So what is your strategy for dating, like, what have you created? How have you curated your life in order to put aside time? You mentioned time. There's no other way to get to know somebody other than spending quality time with them. So you can text and send cards and whatever, but that's not going to do anything. It's not going to build a deep, meaningful relationship with somebody over a period of time unless you're spending time with them. So that's one of the questions I ask and I got to tell you and not just the, the, the women that are updated, that are, that are divorced moms or single moms that that that have a hundred percent is money. Women, I don't think, put together a strategy. A strategy, and I think maybe that's the difference between the male brain and the female brain, and maybe you can speak to this because oftentimes, even if they have a parenting schedule and they do have a healthy relationship with the dad, they have no clue or concept. There's not something that they've even thought about.
Speaker 2:Right, and I think that's actually turns into a frustration for a lot of guys. One of the things is and I'm sure we've all heard this women are like I just want it to happen organically. I just want it to happen, naturally.
Speaker 2:It's just going to happen. Well, okay, that's great and it's wonderful it happens. But in the guy's head we're like but if we don't do things to make it happen, it's never going to happen. Obviously we're speaking in huge gross generalizations here, but generally speaking, guys tend to like to see like a step A, step B, step C process and a lot of times women want it to kind of happen. But it happening a lot of times is because the guy's planning something, inviting something, and she just feels like it's a natural occurrence.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, a lot of women well, I don't know, I mean I feel like a lot of women, you know, are very, very, very structured, particularly if they're single moms, almost to the point where there's no flexibility I've actually experienced that quite a bit to see what their availability is and realize that, as a single dad, people are going to make assumptions about your availability or lack of availability and they're not necessarily going to take the time to ask that question. So I think, advertising it, packaging yourself in it, as you know, I'm a single dad and you know I have my kids three days out of the week. You know the rest of the week, you know, is my life to live, however I like, and you know those sorts of things, because otherwise people could just sort of you know, paint with a broad stroke what your availability is, what your attractiveness is as a single dad, and I think it's important to show that. No, no, no, I have plenty of time carved out for connections.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a great point. That sounds to me on a dating profile. I'm a single dad who has his shit together, right Like a line in there in your summary A single dad has his shit together.
Speaker 1:A single dad with plenty of room to breathe, yeah shit together first, a single dad with plenty of room to breathe, yeah, yeah, yeah, there you go, which is, which is a great point. So we're, we're as a single dad. There's just going to be. We're going to get weeded out by some, some people, and that's fine. Some, some people don't want to to to deal with what what entails of just children. Maybe somebody doesn't want to deal with children and, depending what age your children are like, for instance, these two have young kids that are four and two, and my children were six, four and two when this process started, when I started my divorce. So I can understand that and that's a whole different dynamic and your time is taken differently than what I'm experiencing now, which is 19, 17-year-old, 15-year-old and older, and your time frees up and you have different ways to do that. But I would encourage dads to maybe take the lead in having that conversation, but also, like you said, I don't know necessarily advertising it, but just talking about what your your vision is for dating and how you want to go, have a process for what you want and so, and that can be different if you're just casually dating, or that can be, and that is going to definitely be different if you're looking to have a long-term relationship or a relationship that ends in marriage.
Speaker 1:But have that process, know what that means. Are you going to be seeing each other three times a week, four times a week? What is that and what are those? Is that getting together? Is that doing things, et cetera? We're going to do that until we feel comfortable, both committing to an exclusive relationship. That's generally going to be this timeframe, and then we're going to date exclusively after that. What does exclusively mean? That could be different to different people, right? Like I've been in monogamous relationships where I was the only one monogamous, right? So that's different to different people. So I would say be very, very clear, very, very definite and defined in what you're doing. You just don't have the time to waste.
Speaker 2:I can also hear the voices of many, many, many women that I have spoken with saying yes, be clear about the process, but don't try to control me with your process. Don't try to dictate to me what this is going to look like. So for me, I completely, 100%, agree with what you're saying and realize that this is, at least in the beginning, an internal process. This is what I would like it to look like. This is how many days or evenings a week that I would like to be able to get together. This is what it means to me to be committed to each other. This is what it means to be monogamous with somebody, although I thought that term was pretty clear. Yeah, so did I. Yeah. And the more we have those things clearly defined inside of us, it becomes a matter of sharing it, voicing it and really just kind of I like the word informing the other person of what we're looking for when we talk about, well, what's this relationship going to look like? And it becomes this collaborative effort. There's a little more push and pull.
Speaker 2:I have found that women love to feel that they're being presented with lots of information. Well, not lots of information. That's overstating it. With lots of information well, not lots of information, that's overstating it. Women like men to present what's going on inside them very clearly, but not require them to make a decision about it right away. They don't have to agree or disagree, they definitely don't have to conform and they don't feel controlled by it.
Speaker 2:That, I have found, is what makes women feel the most attractive. I have found is what makes women feel the most attractive Clarity in what I'm looking for and what turns me on, and even you know, having a vision that you're sharing of this is what a blended family would look like. This sounds awesome to me, and then just wait and see how she responds to that image. But it's very important to be an image and a process that we're sharing, that makes sense to us, that we embrace positively and we are not, because it is so easy for guys to be like oh, I'm being assertive, I'm being dominant, I'm being the man and that will turn women off.
Speaker 2:So so fast if they're being told what they're going to enjoy.
Speaker 1:So so fast if they're being told what they're going to enjoy. So let's dial down on that a little bit, because I feel like your assessment is absolutely right. Sometimes it's been my experience that it's a mixed message. I want you to be assertive, I want you to, but then it is when it doesn't go their way, or when it's not, yeah, it's like I don't I don't even know how to describe it that's not comfortable to them or it's something that they don't want. Then it becomes you're too controlling.
Speaker 1:So it's like okay, well, you said you wanted me to be assertive, and and, and. So I've been assertive. I've laid out kind of how I feel, what I think. We've talked about this. You've, you've even agreed to this and said, yeah, like three days is good and let's do that. And then, and then you get down. You get down the road a little bit, and what I mean a little bit is that we're talking about in the beginning, maybe, when you're just dating, and then you're not, none of this stuff is happening. And then you start saying, well, hey, we talked about this. And then it's like you're being controlling, like well, not actually, not like we, just we, we talked about all this, and some of this is communication. Right, I'm assuming that you're going to tell me that you need to be better at communicating. Maybe you haven't been communicating well, or or whatever it is, but I find that a lot that it's when it's when, it's when they, when they don't have the assertiveness they want the assertiveness, when they get the assertiveness, it's like you're too controlling.
Speaker 2:Right, right, right, dude man like this is.
Speaker 2:This is the biggest, squirreliest topic, because you know almost everything that I or anyone can say.
Speaker 2:You will find plenty of examples to the contrary, and for me, the fundamental guiding principle behind it is one getting square with myself, knowing where I am, what's the process that I like, that I enjoy, that looks really good to me, and being open to that being changed and improved with time. When I have that picture and I'm again I'm not entering into a conversation about what is this relationship going to look like I'm going to tell them the kind of relationship that looks very attractive to me and then see how they respond to that. They're like, oh man, that sounds awesome. Or like, I don't really know, that sounds like getting together a lot every week. But you leave it as two distinct people having that conversation, and the way I do that is by presenting where I'm coming from individually. Now here's the real trick, and this is the thing that a lot of guys never make the distinction on. Anything that you are putting out there as a man needs to be presented as an invitation.
Speaker 2:Good point you know our dynamic, whatever it is. I have a picture and I am writing up a pretty little invitation, you know, in cursive, with diagrams or whatever. I'm sliding it across the table and I am inviting you to join in that picture with me. Okay, no woman gets pissed off at a guy for extending an invitation. What we don't realize is, guys, is we will quickly and easily go from inviting to requesting, or inviting to expecting, or inviting to demanding, or inviting to holding someone, to an agreement or a contract that we thought we drew up six months ago, an agreement or a contract that we thought we drew up six months ago, and she's apparently not in the same place.
Speaker 2:Just to speak to those changing elements, guys, basic masculine energy, grounded, solid, a mountain, the rock that she can count on. That's not to say you can't be emotional, that's not to say you can't change your mind, but you want to have a grounded, rooted nature to yourself, and the reason for that is because, one, it's just basically attractive to all men and women. Men that are grounded are very attractive. Two, the more grounded you are as a man, the more she can relax and free herself up and go into a more feminine place, and the more she's in that carefree feminine place, the more room there is for the dynamic to happen back and forth. Okay, there's ups and downs to that. That feminine energy, once it starts to come out and it's free-flowing, she's going to be more happy, more giddy, more playful and probably more horny, because that's how that's.
Speaker 2:When women are lighthearted, they tend to be more interested in sex.
Speaker 2:But we also have to realize that at the same time, they're going to be carefree means they might be more fluid in the moment, they might change their minds more often and particularly if you enter into a relationship with someone and they begin to relax, a woman, and they begin to relax and they begin to be more themselves, they begin to be more fluid and feminine themselves, they begin to be more fluid and feminine. We have to accept that. That fluidity is part of the feminine nature and we need to make plenty of room for her to be that way and just let her do it and then restate on our end. So you know, sex is kind of part of who I am. You know this is. And again, we present where we're coming from. We present an attractive invitation for them to join in the experience and they'll go oh yeah, of course I forgot you know and they'll just change their mind back again. But we, but we, have to let them be in that carefree space if we want to enjoy the feminine qualities.
Speaker 1:Okay, that makes great sense. Let's come up with an example of this, because it's very nuanced, right, because you're talking about an invitation and in my mind, in my dude mind, I'm like all right, once you accept the invitation, then it's an event, like it's like this is the time and dates, and then you just set to the time and date. But what you're saying is and and this makes sense, but this is probably this is one of the difficult challenges in masculine feminine dynamics is that's not necessarily like accepting an invitation to a woman doesn't then define time and date and ongoing, and like, yeah, this is, whereas a guy is like this is it, it's the time and date, and we said we're gonna do it three times this this week, whatever it is, and for her it's a little bit different. So in in in application, how do you? Little bit different. So in in in application, how do you? How do you revisit that invitation because I love you? You said, well, it's an invitation, then becomes a, a request, then becomes a demand.
Speaker 1:I don't remember what all the words were, but I can see this and I can see this like this that what you just described in in that scenario is me like, because I'm like I'm putting that invitation and doing it in the beginning, and then as soon as they're like, not as soon as they accepted the invitation, and then we get off off track. I'm like okay, you accepted this damn invitation, like what part of this is it, you know? And then I get frustrated with it. So how do we, how do we re re-invite, if you will, and stay in our masculine right? Because then when I get frustrated, that's not attractive at all, because they're like oh, he's losing his shit and you know, get it together, buddy, and that's. You know, that's not, you know.
Speaker 2:Why are you so insecure? All of a sudden Right exactly.
Speaker 1:Insecure, controlling, like everything else. I'm just like. No, I'm not. It's just that you accepted the damn invitation. Why are we not doing it? Okay?
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay, really, really good questions. And again, just to reiterate it, these are very, very subtle elements. And to try to understand the guiding principle behind it, that's really what it's about. Every concrete situation I can throw out there, there is going to be 30, 40% exceptions. So the idea is the principle behind it.
Speaker 2:So let's say, for example, let's take a first date. You know I extended an invitation. She said yes and it's happening a week from now. Okay, lots of stuff can happen in between, particularly if it was online on one of the apps. You know like time goes by really quick.
Speaker 2:So, first of all, first thing we need to understand is you might be the kind of guy that shows up when he says he's going to show up. That is not the experience that a lot of women have had with a lot of guys. So just realize that I said I'm going to be there, I'm going to be there. She doesn't know that about you yet. You know, give it three or five dates, she'll probably know that about you, but she's not going to know that from the very beginning. So just, you know, leave a little room for the fact that she might need a little bit of reassurance, convincing demonstration. You know, proof in the pudding that you are actually that way. Okay, so again, we set up a first date.
Speaker 2:There's a week that goes by, there's a bunch of ways that you essentially just want to confirm that the plans are still on. The thing I like to do is confirm the night before morning of, depending on what's happening. Hey, really looking forward to seeing you tonight. Hey, really looking forward to seeing you tomorrow. Hey, by the way, imagine your intermarriage or interrelationship the concert's at seven and it's 5 tomorrow. Hey, by the way, imagine your inner marriage or inner relationship the concerts at seven and it's 545. Hey, by the way, remember we got to find a parking spot, we got to do all these things.
Speaker 2:I'm not saying what's wrong with you. Why aren't you in the car? I'm restating I'm being the rock, I'm being the stable foundation, and I'm doing it positively by saying hey, looking forward to seeing you. Tomorrow Is 5.30, still good. So subtle thing that I'm doing. I'm one not just sending a message, because some people don't respond to messages, like, if it's just a message, I do put in some kind of a question, so she will need to respond in some way. So I don't show up without anybody there.
Speaker 1:I'm also so let me ask you a quick question on this, two questions. I don't want to get too far off, but do you usually set dates out that far? A week or more, more now, sometimes, because we have parenting schedules and plans like that? Sometimes it's. It's necessarily.
Speaker 1:However, I oftentimes find and and this isn't necessarily so, I'm going to state it, but I'm going to also say it's not necessarily a bad thing is that stuff goes on, or if they are somebody like I described that has not thought through how they're going to actually date, it ends up getting canceled or pushed off, et cetera, and so then then at least for me, that's not a bad thing, because then at least you know this person is probably isn't have their stuff together to figure out. That's not always the case, but then I guess what you're saying is that gives you another opportunity to re-invite, right, if they need to change it or cancel or something like that, you don't have to necessarily take it as a bad thing. Maybe it is, you don't know yet, but you can re-invite and then take it from there, yeah.
Speaker 1:I take it as information.
Speaker 2:So you know I have certain etiquette. What I consider to be polite, everybody does, and so with single moms, I mean they usually can't be spontaneous. My experience is they almost always have to plan a ways out in advance. So I'm giving this example because it's particularly relevant, I think, to being a single parent, at least in my experience.
Speaker 1:For sure.
Speaker 2:Yeah, if it can be the next day or two days later, great, that's even better. But you know, does this? Can this person stick to that commitment? Well, how important are commitments to a person? That's, you know, when we're dating, we're trying to figure out, you know, if this person is compatible for me. Do we have similar ideas of what, of what polite and rude are, and whether or not they show up on the date, how we communicate before the date, you know, can we pin it down? It's like well, you know, text me the night before and I'll see what's going on. For me is a huge turnoff.
Speaker 1:Huge red flag, yeah, yep.
Speaker 2:Okay, I'm not saying a red flag because I read me. Well, okay, for me, saying it's a red flag means there are issues that haven't been dealt with. Some people might have, you know, you know they might have a work schedule that they don't get to dictate it. They might have a boss that decides those things for them and they are on call. They might get called out of town or not. I really, really reserve. I try not to say red flag on something. I simply say okay, that's not going to work with me, that's not what I'm looking for, and I know that. Because I don't feel good, I feel like I'm left hanging, I feel disrespected. Are they being disrespectful? I don't know, I feel like I'm left hanging. I feel disrespected. Are they being disrespectful? I don't know, I don't know the full situation that they're in.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, hopefully they can say that to you, right, like they convey the situation and that's why they have to text the day before. Yeah. To me it'd be a red flag if they did, if they don't have that situation and they did that, and it's like, oh, okay, well, I think that's I completely agree.
Speaker 2:However, there are plenty of other dudes on Tinder that have no problem with there being a completely fluid environment. Here's the thing. We're looking for what we fit with. We're looking for what's a match for us. I'm not going to say what is not a match for me is wrong or a red flag. I'm going to have my opinions about it.
Speaker 2:But labeling somebody or a certain behavior, classifying it the reason I don't do it is actually because I don't like how that further constricts my mind and my heart. I want to remain open and go. I don't know what the situation is, but I do know that they're not showing up in a way that's connecting with me. We're not landing on the dates. We're not having the dates that I'm looking for. I don't need to know why and I don't need to really assess the situation further. It leaves me free to stay in a positive, open place where there's no like oh, a bunch of women can't even do this or they can't do that. There's red flags all over. I don't want to condition my mind and my heart to think that way.
Speaker 1:Right. It's just not going to work for me because of what I'm looking for. So that makes sense. So then, if we stay open like that, how do you if you can get yourself into that mindset get your mind to reframe? How do you re-invite? And even the next step maybe you've already gone on some dates and you've talked about this and then things are not quite happening. How do you go about doing that? How do you reframe your mind and how do you approach that? How do you go about doing that? How do you reframe your mind and how do you approach that?
Speaker 2:So you try to remember and stick to square one, what it is you're looking for in your picture of what a good, enjoyable dating relationship looks like. You stick to it on your end and you represent it Again. You're like concert starting at 7.30. We're going to have to get moving here. I'm looking to see somebody at least two or three times a week and I understand stuff comes up. We're really only seeing each other once every two weeks. Here Again, I'm going to present it.
Speaker 2:As for me, I want to be able to connect with somebody. I want to see them regularly, I want to touch them regularly, I want them in my life on a regular basis. I'm presenting all of this as a positive picture. I'm re-inviting them not just to that event, and then they canceled all that. Then, three weeks later, I'm doing another one. All all of this turns into this sort of like contract that's being written up and violated and, and you know, crossed out with a red line by a, by a lawyer or something, and it's like no, no, no, no, no, no, no. That's getting lost in the interaction and in the details. I need to keep real clear the attractive image that I want to experience and continue to invite her into that experience. Want to experience and continue to invite her into that experience.
Speaker 1:And in the process. Can we hit on that real quick? Because what came to my mind was sharing what that is and why. That's why that is something that you want. Like you said, I want to experience you two or three times, I want to get to know you. Experience you two or three times, I want to get to know you.
Speaker 1:I want to be able to touch you see you admire you, spend a little bit of time, take you out and make you feel pretty. Take you out, make you feel yeah, yeah, yeah. So if you're sharing the why behind what it is, it's less of a requirement, more of an invitation, right, but that includes you needing to know what it is and why you want to do that. And also, on the flip side of that, it might be that you don't want to do that and you need to say, hey, I'm all right with, I just am looking once a week or whatever, because you just want to hook up or just have companionship. Right, maybe the guys are just starting to date again, and that's fine too. But sharing the why behind it, then it feels like makes it an invitation more than a requirement. Is that pretty?
Speaker 2:accurate, I would agree. For me, I'm not even saying why I want this. I'm saying what I want and I'm again trying to paint a picture that they can see, and they will see attractively, because they've got some other picture in their mind and I want them to see what I'm after and I want them to see that I am very attracted to this and that I very much enjoy this. Why I enjoy this? It's kind of a you know, that's kind of like a deeper question, like Dallas, why do you enjoy, you know, physical affection so much? Well, that's, I don't know, it's going to childhood stuff or you know, we'll go into who knows what, you know, into the why. What is? I want to be able to sit and hold your hand at least three times a week, even if it's just 30 minutes. You're waiting for your kid to get out of school. I need to be able to sit down and hold your hand because I want to know that, like I'm, I'm the guy holding your hand.
Speaker 1:I want to you know.
Speaker 2:I want to be able to, you know, rub your back or something you know, once a week, because I want you to know the kind of home life that I want us to move towards. Why? Is kind of obvious, I think, if you're presenting it as an attractive picture.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay, that makes sense. So that's a little bit nuanced too. So for you, trauma dumpers, don't get into your childhood trauma and why you need to be touched right, that's going to be unattractive. But sharing what it is that you want not necessarily and maybe not necessarily a deep why behind it, but just what it is that you want, and then they can put the picture together it makes a lot more sense.
Speaker 2:And they will accept with enthusiasm the invitation of what you're talking about, and this includes physical touch, this includes being sexual, this includes going on dates, this includes different types of outings. You'll extend that invitation with the thing you like and they will accept it with enthusiasm. Those are the best cases. They will accept it more or less with consent, which isn't a whole lot of feelings, and they're just sort of checking it out to see how things go, or they'll reject the invitation.
Speaker 2:The important thing as a guy is to realize I'm looking for information about what this woman does with my invitations. I want to be dating women that are enthusiastically writing yes, all caps at the bottom of my invitations so that when I'm confirming the day before they're like yeah, absolutely Looking forward to seeing you tomorrow. By the way, just to circle back to that, when I said, is 5.30 still good for you, I am demonstrating proactively flexibility by saying that. I'm saying hey, if you need some accommodations, if something is going on, I'm the kind of guy that's okay with that. I am not the kind of guy that says we said 530. If you're not there at 530, you're not living up to my expectations. That is a huge, huge turnoff to women. And again, that slips into controlling and that slips into, well, you know, we agreed to this and now you're not living up to the contract.
Speaker 2:The book I think it's Robert Glover, I think no More, mr Nice Guy that the heart of that book is about social contracts, agreements, most of which are unwritten, most of which are unwritten, and us saying I am entitled to this because somebody agreed to it or because I thought society promised it to me. What I'm saying is guys, come back to square one, write an attractive invitation, extend it, see what she does with it, and you're looking for women that enthusiastically say yes to what you're inviting them to experience and then you invite them more and then, hopefully, they accept it more. Whenever they are not accepting it, that information to tell you this might not be a fit for what you're looking for. It's that simple.
Speaker 1:So it's all feedback. So the invitations are continual feedback for you and if you're not getting the excitement or participation or energy whatever it is that you need through that, then it's helping you to decide. Okay, well, this is maybe not something that's going to work out. This is not the relationship or this is not the structure of a relationship that I want. I wanted to comment, dr Robert, on all of this, and maybe this helps us put a neat bow on it.
Speaker 1:Dr Robert Glover's got a really good analogy. He talks about baking the cake. Like you're baking this cake of your life with these invitations, and basically these invitations are stuff that you like to do, that you're interested in, that you've come up with Because you've designed your life, you've curated your life to know what you want to do, the direction you want, the family life that you want, et cetera. So by creating these invitations out to them, you've baked your cake, which is the lifestyle, the environment that you want, and then you're inviting her into it and he describes it as then her as the icing on the cake right, that she comes alongside you, as the icing on the cake in this environment that you've created. That's not diminishing a woman, it just means that you're taking a leadership role, you're asserting your masculine nature, which is leading leading the relationship, leading your life, creating an environment for them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, again, I feel like that's a little bit of a slippery slope to say that we are the cake and they're the frosting. To me it's a little slippery and we're leading the relationship or we're leading the experience. I'm inviting someone to a relationship, I'm inviting them to an experience, and the way I look at it is I'm writing the invitation, so I am authoring it from scratch. I'm the author. When I slide it across the table, you know what's going to happen like more than half the time. She's going to edit that invitation, so I'm authoring it, but she's changing it, she's editing it, and that is the contribution. And it's not a fair division of labor, because anybody knows this.
Speaker 2:Writing something from scratch takes more effort. You have to come up with just from nothing. You have to come up with these creative ideas, slide them across the table and she'll be like yeah, I don't know about that. How about we do this? And and one of the things we have to look for is what kind of an editor is she? Is she respectful of the effort that we put out? Is she collaborating, is she looking towards something shared, or is she being a bit of a princess? Is she collaborating, is she looking towards something shared, or is she being a bit of a princess? Is she being selfish? Is she just and again, like you said, that's the information that we're constantly gathering in the dating process to see if they're the right fit, right, but I would posit that the feedback and how you handle it and her editing process is effective leadership.
Speaker 1:So if you're just pissed and you're like, oh, then that's obviously not strong leadership, that's you being butthurt and having an ego. But if you are a healthy leader and you do take that, a healthy leader is going to take feedback and then we can take it to the next step. When you're leading your family and your relationship, then you're taking feedback all of the time as a leader and you're making adjustments and you have to do that. So, so I, so so I, I still, I still view it as you leading the relationship and I feel like you are that us as men and especially as as dads, because then if, depending on what you want with a relationship hopefully it's a healthy romantic relationship then that your kids are watching you have with this person, then they are watching you be a healthy, effective leader then with this person. So I still, I still, I still call it leadership. I think it's important that you are, that you are leading. I know that's a loaded word these days and women don't want to be led or they don't want to be submissive, and and, and and men to some extent, have abdicated that, uh, that responsibility, a whole lot, and then it gets back, but that's a whole nother podcast episode, right, that, uh, that we can get into. But maybe we just wrap it up then with the idea of leadership being getting feedback and having to then make adjustments around that and understanding that there's a difference in the dynamics and how they're coming from.
Speaker 1:Oh, another thing I wanted to say is part of that baking the cake, I feel in the context of a divorced dad, is you have to, because you've got the family already. So part of this is you do have to invite somebody in to some extent, that they're going to have to buy into your environment and the yeah and the life that you have you have created, because if they because some of it is just automatically, is automatically set, you can't, you can't change it. You can't change it. You have, however, many kids. Hopefully you're not going to advocate that responsibility and that duty right to which some people, some, some men, do right, find the other one, leave the family, which is messed up, and we don't need to go down that one. But so some of it is that you are creating that, and that goes to what we talked about last week, which is really knowing what it is that you want, and creating that environment, et cetera. So maybe we'll just wrap it up around that.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. Yeah, I completely agree with everything you said. And again, the word leadership it's a broad term. My particular way is make sure you're exercising self-leadership that's the picture you have of yourself and then you're extending an invitation for someone else to experience that leadership as part of their experience as well. Yeah, certain parts of being a dad, it's a package deal. The kids are there. This isn't going to change. This is simply part of the elements that are coming into it and you do want to have really strong boundaries in those areas. Extending an invitation is for a particular part of the life and there are certain parameters that can change. But, to your point, there's a whole lot that doesn't.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's a whole episode waiting right here on that leadership component.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I want to make the point too is this may be uncomfortable. So if you are a codependent, we talked about the no more Mr Dice guy. Really, it's a repackaging of codependency and talking about how to not be a codependent guy within the context of relationships in your life but this might be uncomfortable for you and it's going to be a challenge and a work in progress for you to have to deal with that discomfort around this and going back, wrapping it back around to the Joe Jonas and Sophie Turner thing, wrapping it back around to the Joe Jonas and Sophie Turner thing there was probably not this dynamic. That was a healthy dynamic. Otherwise she wouldn't have just taken off unilaterally and done her own thing.
Speaker 1:I think that we see that probably in a lot of our relationships, so some of this might be a mirror for you guys. Right, if you're not getting the feedback, and that's not a bad thing either this is all feedback there for you guys, right, if you're not getting the feedback, and that's not a bad thing either, this is all feedback. There's no failure, right? There's no failure. She says no on a to a date. There's no failure if it doesn't go how you want it to. It's all feedback, so some of this might be a mirror that's feedback-like, and I know that this was the case for me.
Speaker 2:I was like, oh man, like I got a lot of work to do, but that's okay, yeah, and there is. There is to your point. There is so much discomfort in behaving differently in this way. But I can tell you, because I've I've gone through the process myself, the amount of fresh air and breathing room that you get on the opposite side, not being tethered and attached to the outcome and to another person, having to be happy by what I am or I'm not doing, it is so worth the discomfort, it is really worth it, Absolutely.
Speaker 1:And that's like a whole other episode too, which is don't be tied to outcomes. Right, that is a tremendous one, but let's leave that as a hook for a future one. Not being tied to, because that's a tough one, but the freedom, like you said, and I'll just reiterate, is just tremendous in your life. On that, Awesome. Well, that was really really good, Dallas, those that are listening how can they get in touch with you to get some more of your pearls of wisdom?
Speaker 2:Thanks, jude. Yeah, find me on YouTube. That's the best way to get long form material. If you're interested in knowing about my group and private coaching and events that I'm at around town, check out blackboxdatingcom. And, jude, thanks again for having me on. It is so fun being your co-host on Dad's Dating After Divorce. I just love digging into stuff with you. You bring so much interesting questions you know to the table.
Speaker 1:Thanks, my friend and and and I appreciate your ability to, to, to cut through some of this, some of this stuff. And you know we've been, we just revamped and doing this to, like last week, this week. You've just got stuff spinning in my head now Like I'm thinking about all this. I'm like man, he said this and he said that, and like every week that I'm thinking, oh, man, so so thank you, I appreciate it. Dads that are listening that want some more support around, wherever you're at in your divorce, even if it's post-divorce check out thedivorcedadvocatecom. We've got all kinds of resources there for you to check out as well. So, Dallas, have a terrific week and we'll talk to everybody soon. Thanks you too. Bye.
