Dads Dating After Divorce
Dating after divorce isn’t what it used to be—especially when you’re a dad. The rules have changed, the world has changed, and now you’ve got kids in the mix. Join Dallas and Jude as they share real-world strategies and insights from their work with dads and men at BlackBoxDating.com and TheDivorcedDadvocate.com.
Dads Dating After Divorce
12 - Blowtorches, Ovens, and Smokers: Understanding Relationship Timing
What happens when Hollywood tries to depict modern dating? In this eye-opening episode, we dissect "The Materialist" movie starring Dakota Johnson, Pedro Pascal, and Chris Evans to reveal the gap between cinematic romance and the authentic relationship dynamics divorced dads navigate daily.
The film portrays a matchmaker torn between a wealthy "unicorn" and her struggling actor ex-boyfriend—a classic Hollywood polarization that misses the nuanced middle ground where real relationships thrive. We explore how the movie both gets right and severely misrepresents the natural desires of men and women in relationships. While women's need for security isn't "materialistic" and men's physical attraction isn't "superficial," these natural drives are often unfairly villainized in modern media.
For divorced dads, financial reality dramatically shifts when one household becomes two. We candidly discuss post-divorce financial changes and how to approach dating with honesty about your situation without letting it define you. Women are attracted not necessarily to wealth, but to men with direction, purpose, and the ability to handle their responsibilities—what we playfully call "the smoker method" versus "the blowtorch approach" to relationships.
Safety emerges as a crucial theme—women need to feel safe both with you as a person and with the complex situation they're entering. When dating a divorced dad, they're assessing whether your co-parenting dynamics, relationship with your ex, and overall life structure will become their burden or whether you've created space for a new relationship to flourish naturally.
We challenge the rigid rules and timelines that internet dating gurus promote, encouraging an approach built on presence and intention rather than arbitrary expectations. Each relationship unfolds uniquely, and approaching milestones with authenticity creates memorable experiences that can potentially become stories you share for years to come.
Ready to transform your approach to dating after divorce? Check out our resources at blackboxdating.com and thedivorcedadvocate.com and join us next week as we continue exploring the path to authentic connection.
Hello and welcome to Dad's Dating After Divorce. I am your co-host, Jude Sandoval, founder of the Divorce Dadvocate community, and my co-host, Dallas Bluth, relationship and dating coach from Black Box. Dating Dallas how you doing Doing fabulous. Good morning Jude. How you doing I am doing great. So this is round two of our attempt to record this episode. Those of you who are listening it's not all glamorous red carpet all the time. Sometimes it starts and stops and challenges and so, yeah, we had this like everything going against us the last time around Headphone issues, Internet issues. It was just a mess and we got halfway through and just scrapped it and then you started a DIY project. So you started your man project after that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, we had to do a mercy kill on that episode. We just had to put it down. It was not going pretty. So I was was thinking about it. We were talking about options and the problem I had on my end was the wi-fi upstairs isn't talking well enough with the, with the router downstairs, and I was like I've got a long drill bit, I'm gonna order an ethernet cable and I'm gonna fix this. Yeah, like five hours later I'm up through the attic in the insulation, dropping down through closets. Yeah, but the internet is way, way better. So you know it is so good.
Speaker 1:You're smooth. I see your lips actually moving and everything, so I don't have to guess at what you're saying. And then time that that delay or anything. So we're good. Well, let's jump into our topic. We've got a fun episode. I think it was fun talking about it for the half hour that we did before we scrapped the last episode. So I think we can dive maybe even deeper and refine it even better than we did last time. So it's going to work out for you guys is what I'm saying, and so the background on this is I was watching a movie this week.
Speaker 1:I was picking a movie this weekend and I clicked on the Materialist, but I thought that I was watching the Brutalist, which is the Adrian Brody movie. That's well-acclaimed and whatnot. I know sometimes I have those brain pauses and so I'm sitting there watching it and I'm thinking when is Adrian Brody going to show up in this movie? He's nowhere to be found and it's not the right movie. So anyway, I started watching it. The premise of the movie is there's a woman who is a dating coach or a matchmaker Not a dating coach. There's a big difference A matchmaker in New York City and she meets a very wealthy guy. She has an ongoing kind of on and off relationship with her ex, who is a waiter, aspiring actor, et cetera, and the movie plays out about relationships, about masculine, feminine nature, dating scenarios, etc. I want to share, and I'll just say Dallas. The whole time I was thinking these people need Dallas, they need Dallas, they need to talk to Dallas about how to handle this situation.
Speaker 2:The whole time yeah, I'm not sure I'd be able to help a lot of them. Yeah, I'm not sure.
Speaker 1:I'd be able to help a lot of them.
Speaker 2:You know they've got their priorities so strongly aligned in a certain way. Being in New York and all of that, I'm like I don't know that they really want to hear what I have to say.
Speaker 1:Yeah, right, and I think we'll dive into that. There's some extreme polarities in the movie because it is Hollywood, obviously, so they got to play to some of that. But I'm going to share some of the stuff that I liked about it before I start to really destroy it and talk about the things that they could have done better, because it was a Hollywood movie, right. So I liked Dakota Johnson just off the bat. I think she's an excellent actress, she's nice to look at and everything I've watched her in is is really great. So, uh, and actually I think all three of the main actors pedro pascal, chris evans did a really good job in in their roles and portraying the, the characters that that they were.
Speaker 1:I liked the. The. How it act accurately portrayed kind of just the innate masculine and feminine desires of men and women, and they said it out loud, they didn't just allude to it. I thought that that was good, although I think that they could have expanded upon it and they didn't, but we'll get to that. But I think it also kind of accurately portrayed the dating environment out there.
Speaker 1:Now it was set in New York City, so it's probably kind of its own little enclave of how you date. So there is some of that, but for the most part I think it delved into some accuracies around dating. For the most part, I think it delved into some accuracies around dating. And then the other thing I it was it was it was honest in not only how they talked about masculine and feminine desires, but also they talked about a little bit about they touched on childhood traumas and how those things might play into relationships. Now, they didn't. That was a huge missed opportunity, I think, where they could have gone into some more stuff and we'll talk about that too here but they did touch on it. So I appreciated that. So those are some of my big likes about the movie. What were some of the things that you liked? So?
Speaker 2:one of the things I really so. First of all, I saw it in the theater several months back, so my memory is going to be a little fuzzy, a little hazy and, plus, you know, I had you before we started the recording. Give me the names of the actors, because boy do I suck at remembering those names. So I've got a little list here so that I can make sure I've got the right person, you know, for the right role. One of the things that I really liked about it was essentially, the two male characters One of them is very rich and the other one is definitely not and I like how Dakota Johnson is trying to decide. She thinks she wants this list of things, but it turns out that that doesn't actually fully pull her away from the draw to the other guy, her ex-boyfriend. Oh, by the way, spoiler alerts if you haven't watched the movie.
Speaker 2:Stop now and go watch the movie, uh, if you care about, because we're going to talk about everything beginning to end. So, okay, fair game. Yeah, I really like the fact that she struggled, you know, she came to a certain decision about what she wanted, but and that's from her, coming from her head, but her heart really wasn't satisfied, even when she was getting the rich guy, even when she had his complete, undivided attention and he was doing everything the way that we want a woman, that we think a guy is supposed to do it. Even when she got it, she caught the big fish.
Speaker 1:She wasn't satisfied.
Speaker 2:The unicorn, as they call it in the movie, exactly yeah, the unicorn, and, and so I think I like the fact that it that it basically had this undertone of like, well, you might think you know what you want, but what's actually effective, what actually tugs on your heartstrings is is might have a different plan.
Speaker 1:Well, that leads perfectly into what I did not like about that, and particularly on.
Speaker 2:I know there's, there's that, oh my God.
Speaker 1:You've already heard a half hour of this, so you know that I could probably talk for two hours on this, so I so I I want to. I want to put this into context for dads listening that are thinking about dating also, that have children, because Hollywood is such an influence and watching these movies has such an influence. This is something that I have, for a long time, been very conscientious about with my daughters is watching movies and talking about some of these dynamics that come up in movies, because these dynamics are not always portrayed in a healthy manner. I think they did a good job with this movie, but I think that there are underlying things that are maybe misconceptions if you want to look at it from a nice light.
Speaker 1:Some are just modern feminist propaganda that is undermining relationships between men and women, and it's from a specific segment of people that are in the world that have an agenda Right, ok, we're not. We're not portraying every woman woman as as a modern feminist that hate men, et cetera. Ok, let's just get that out of the way before everybody starts sending emails and getting pissy about stuff. That's not what we're saying, but we're saying that there is stuff that was portrayed out there that is not healthy for relationships. That's also why you and I are here doing this that we can help people, because we've also been in these unhealthy relationships. We've exhibited some of these unhealthy traits ourselves and we're trying to help people through this. So this is good content for the dads listening to be able to help with their relationships, but also to talk to their kids If they're like I, have teen daughters watching these movies and saying what do you think about that character and or, as opposed to this, or do you think that could happen a better way?
Speaker 2:So, on that note, I really like that, jude, because the thing is like Hollywood or whatever group of people out there has their certain values and if we don't proactively tell the young people around us, our children you know, if you have children I don't but if we don't make it really really clear that, hey, these values are being pushed on you, are you sure these are actually the values that you want to live by, if we're not active about it, passively they will absorb stuff from movies and then particularly social media and TikTok, whatever just boils up to the top of the channel, is what's going to infiltrate their thinking. So bravo and absolutely important for every dad out there to be very intentional.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. And so that kind of brings me to some of the dislikes that are on that. And, guys, you're going to hear Dallas and I talk about this probably every episode all the time is being intentional and knowing and understanding what your values and your beliefs are, because it's absolutely impossible and I'm going to say impossible to have a really healthy, functioning relationship with somebody if you don't know what that is and you're not able to communicate those and work together. There's so many complexities that go into dating and having a relationship, particularly post-divorce, blending families and all that. You've got to have that stuff in mind. You've got to know some of that's ongoing right, some of that you're learning or refining, et cetera. But really trying to get that dialed in is incredibly important. So on that note of her not knowing what she truly wanted, right.
Speaker 1:So part of the movie in the in the beginning is she breaks up with the, the guy. They're in their 20s, she's a, he's a waiter, aspiring actor and he's broke and she hates the fact that he's broke and she hates herself for hating the fact that he's broke, which I feel like that was disingenuous in the fact that that is just something that is innately a feminine need is to feel that a man can be a provider, be secure. There are some innate things that the feminine nature needs and wants, and so that troubled me that they were villainizing her, and that's kind of the whole point of the movie called the Materialist, that they have all these materials.
Speaker 2:They keep talking about checklists, but I just did not like the fact that they don't accept that, as this is how we're designed, this is how we're wired Right and, if I can just jump in and say that there is a counterpart on the masculine side, we're wired to be attracted to women that are fit in shape, not super overweight. We are and I think the word here is superficial. So the idea that the woman can't stand a guy that doesn't have his financial act together. She hates herself because she sees it as superficial. It's not superficial. It's fundamental to her feeling of safety and security being with him. You know, I don't remember what the problem was. It had something to do with a car breaking down or something like that. And then later in the movie she comes back to him. The guy's still living in the same place that he was 10, 12 years earlier, with two roommates, one nasty ass toilet and it's just like. I mean, no woman wants to be in that environment and it takes money to get out of that environment into another one. It's not superficial. Similarly, for guys, it's not superficial that we're attracted to what we're attracted to physically. I. You know it is interesting.
Speaker 2:I lived in Asia for a while and it's funny. They're very comfortable with the word fat in Asia. Women are fine being told that. They're fine saying it like this. They're like this is obvious that this is just a part of life in America. That is probably one of the worst words you can use today is to call someone man or woman fat, and in words it's like oh, it's. You know, and as a guy, you're superficial. If you're looking at the body and all of that, it's like, yeah, you're actually in denial If you think that her physical body is not important. And I got to say that if women think that that's not important, they're also in denial. The same with a guy. You got to look at your finances it matters. It's not the end, all be all.
Speaker 1:We don't have to have unrealistic standards, but it's not superficial to say that it is fundamentally important, yeah, and that kind of leads. So I want to tie this into the dad's listening to some helpful, some helpful tips and feedback around that it doesn't mean that you've got to have your a hundred percent financial house in order. It doesn't mean you need to be the, the, the Pedro Pascal and be a multi-billion or a billionaire in order to go out and date and find somebody that you can have a healthy relationship, but it does mean that you need to have some of these things in order. You need to know what it is. When we were talking last time about dating and having the means to date, one of the scenes in the movie is she talks about how he can take her to this extraordinarily expensive restaurant and she loves how he just signs the check like it's no big deal and just takes it, and his comment was like, well, so what it's money? I have the money. It's okay. I like doing this, but it's more about the time that I'm spending with you and I enjoy that. I enjoy it in this environment, but that's not really the point of it, which I think was a very appropriate answer.
Speaker 1:I liked his character in their portrayal of him being what they call a unicorn, right, but I would just say that more just in his masculine except for the end when they talked about the surgery and making himself taller and that he couldn't love they just tanked him really at the end of the movie he was this unicorn through and he really held himself well. He did all of what you would imagine somebody in a healthy masculine mindset would be doing. And then she breaks up with him and then he kind of like falls apart, which I thought was sad, because there are men that are like him. There's lots of men that are healthy in their masculinity, like him, that are operating, that healthy in their masculinity like him, that are operating. That you know we all have our challenges and whatnot, but it's not, it's not all, it's not all smoke and mirrors.
Speaker 1:There are healthy masculine men out there, right? So so I did, I did appreciate that, but and I bring that now to to to wrap it up in that you don't have to have a ton of money to do that. You just have to know what you like to do and have the means to be able to do it. Like I was mentioning, I like to do a lot of outdoor stuff, but go ahead. You wanted to interject.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So actually I want to ask you a question. So I'm again. I've never been married, I'm not divorced. I want you to paint for me a bit of a clear picture of how a man's financial situation changes pre-divorce versus post-divorce. Like, walk me through some of the basic. I mean, like the words I have in my head are, you know, child support and alimony, and you know, and and they both have usually very, very negative connotations around them Can you like like break me into the reality, the world that men face once they're in divorce financially? How does it?
Speaker 1:Sure. So, yeah, no, that's a great question, and I know all the dads out there are going oh shit, dallas, let me. Let me tell you and we might have a bunch of comments like, right at this timing on this video, but so well, just from a straightforward mathematical equation, it's one household going into two households and so there, your, your, your disposable income will go down and your, your lifestyle will change. Unless you're a multimillion billionaire, right, I mean that might go from driving a McLaren or Ferrari to a BMW or Lexus, right, but that's still a lifestyle change, right? So it might not be vacations in Iceland, it might be vacations in Florida or the Caribbean, right, but there's going to be a change in the lifestyle.
Speaker 1:And so I think sometimes the other part of it is mentally, emotionally, for guys that's difficult and challenging when you've gone through and you've built, let's say, you've built yourself up in your company or you've created a corporation or a business and you've built that up and then the lifestyle changes. I know for me I created the exact lifestyle that I wanted the house, the cars, the business, the kids, the neighborhood, the community, involvement, all that. And when that all changed and I got divorced, it just shattered. Shattered me mentally and emotionally, going forward thinking, hey, I had exactly what I wanted and I designed all of it, and now it's completely different. So there's different levels to it.
Speaker 2:Okay, so let me jump in here with what I think is there's two fundamental mindsets that men can have around money. It's basically. One of them is I have a lot of money, I have the things that I need, I have a certain amount of wealth, and that's how a lot of money, I have the things that I need, I have a certain amount of wealth, and that's how a lot of people at least talk about it in the language is oh, you know, you are rich, meaning you have money. That's one way of looking at it and I've never really understood it because that is temporary, because you know, if you have a windfall inheritance, you know even of, like you know, a million dollars. If you don't, you know, depending on which direction you're going and how you look at it, you will burn through that money like there's no tomorrow.
Speaker 2:I was a landlord for a while. I had two tenants that I saw do that. They had windfalls, one of them right when they moved in, another one while they were renting from me, and I watched them go right back to the position they were in financially within a year, maybe two. But I was like, wow, you don't get those lottery tickets very often in life, the five-figure, six-figure lottery tickets you just don't. So that leads me to the other mindset, which is where are you going financially? That is the question that you need to ask yourself.
Speaker 2:So you know you had the whole picture you wanted. You had one household. It got like an amoeba, you know, like separated into two cells. Everything had to be divided. Well, I mean, depending on the direction that you're going with things financially, you had to step back, but you're still moving forward. You had to step back, but you're still moving forward. If that is where I am in my heart, financially, I'm still going to have a very attractive confidence around my finances and I'm going to have a coherent story. For anybody that I'm on a date with I'm going to be able to explain look, I went through this. It was a setback. Everybody understands there are setbacks in life, but this is the track that I'm on, this is where I'm going. Yeah, I'll let you. I'll let you jump in on that. Tell me what you think.
Speaker 1:Well, no, I just want to. I just want to say that that mindset should expand to more than just your finances, right?
Speaker 1:And so when, when, when. I'm working with, with dads in private coaching, that's one of the things that we talk about. We've got a five-step program, but clarifying your vision and direction, that is one of the steps. And because your life is going to change, whether you like it or not, because you're getting a divorce, so what you had, how it was, all that stuff, what I imagine it's going to change, you do not have a choice anymore, but what you do have a choice about is the direction that you want to move towards.
Speaker 1:Doesn't mean that is exactly where you're going to hit, but having what you said, having that mindset of, hey, I'm going to make more money or my business is going to be, I'm going to do that same thing in your life and that is what brings that is a masculine trait that we were designed with oftentimes, but but we, that's hard because lots of times that gets conditioned out of us for whatever reason. We lose that. That was my experience. I had totally lost my, my ability to, and I've got an innately very just like masculine nature, but through my upbringing, childhood issues et cetera, that got conditioned out of me to where it was existent until this whole thing exploded and my life completely turned upside down, which was a good thing, right, Because I needed that to happen. It's never a good good thing. You don't want that, you don't have to learn that way, but it had to happen for me to do a 180 on my mindset.
Speaker 2:That's interesting. So, if I'm hearing you right, you're saying that the divorce in a certain way woke you up from a somewhat comfortable place, a little bit of a complacent place. And in that comfortable, complacent place were components that you were not happy with, that you were still carrying with you from childhood.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's beautiful. Yep, yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. So so in in. In. Bringing this back to to what we're talking about is when, now, when we're looking for your next romantic relationship, it's incredibly important to identify. So where are you at working with a coach like Dallas, or somebody that's helping you through your divorce in conjunction with Dallas, or therapist, or a coach and Dallas? That is the optimal way to do some of this self-evaluation and understanding and moving forward. But knowing what you bring to a relationship and what your relational dynamic has been before is incredibly important, because we've talked about this before.
Speaker 1:I just plugged and played Right, so got divorced. Had the ex just plugged somebody else in to try to keep that whole vision right? Like I was just going to plug and play. Well, guess what? It was the same type of person that I had just divorced. And I didn't do that once, I didn't do that twice, I did that multiple times until I started to figure it, until the heartache was so, because sometimes they say that the divorce is heartbreaking but that next relationship that you really get to do if that fails is really really heartbreaking. It was really really heartbreaking for me until I which until I figured out. Ok, there's a common denominator here. I've got to figure my stuff out before we go and find somebody that's going to be healthy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so bringing it back to the Materialist, because the movie was so much about money and finances and all of that. I've asked several women this question. I said would you rather be with a man that, say, has $10 million, a $10 million net worth, but feels like he's the bomb and has stopped doing much of anything with his life and is more or less kicking back on a beach, you know, just kind of enjoying his lifestyle? Or would you rather, or would you rather be with a man that you feel is really going somewhere interesting and exciting, and you see that he has a ticket to success that he's currently working on and cashing in? And I believe pretty much every woman that I've said that to they're like well, the money is nice, but the truth is the vitality of the man that is not retired, the vitality of the man that is still on a quest and going somewhere, that is way sexier to them than just the money sitting in a bank account, and the thing that's interesting about this is the money in the bank.
Speaker 2:So it's a gym analogy when you see somebody who is like super fit, in shape –product of the vital person going into the gym doing that work every day, but all we see is the result. Money is very, very similar when you see somebody that's got some crazy lifestyle and they're doing really well. Yeah, some of that might be inherited, but usually it's an indication that they're on a healthy track financially, the same way that somebody is on a healthy track going to the gym. That vitality, that track, that discipline, that drive, that passion that is what really turn women on and make them want to come back for a second, third, fourth date with you. It's not the laurels that you've acquired and that you've sat on top and you put on top of your head. Now you're kicking back in a beach chair. That is not going to turn anyone on for long.
Speaker 1:So tell me what you think about this, dallas, from a perspective of things that are inherently shared in a masculine and feminine nature. I feel that the sense of adventure, or a call to adventure, is something that both masculine and feminine are both interested in, and that is a commonality that now we attack it from a different perspective, I feel, but if we want to find something that is a unifying or a commonality between the polarity of masculine and feminine, that would be one of them that I think is a good one for. Give me a second. I'll let you go on with this one, because it's a great one, one that we can focus on with women in order to help them to come alongside us and be in this adventure with us in our lives. Go, tell us why and how. Yeah, I was raising my hand there. Please, please, call on me. I want to talk.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because this ties into I think it was the last episode that we're on and both men and women want to experience an adventure. However, like you just said, our approach, our orientation to adventure is fundamentally, on a subtle level, rather different. Men are we feel alive, we feel healthy, we feel good about ourselves, we feel proud when we strike out on an adventure, when we go out like Odysseus, you know, away from home and go on the grand quest that's part of you know Joseph Campbell's the Hero's Journey is you have to go out, leave the comfortable place in order to do it. Women want to be invited to join in an adventure, and that's tying into the previous episode where we were talking about invitations.
Speaker 2:Women don't want to have to go from zero to 15 miles an hour in a four-wheel drive vehicle, like getting out there on the safari. They want a guy to come up to their door with a four-wheel drive vehicle, already warmed up, oils, checked, tires are ready to go, got all the camping gear they need in the back, and we're like, hey, babe, hop in. That is what women want to experience. And then they get to drive, they get to ride shotgun, they get to be in the passenger seat, looking at all the beautiful stuff and having the sense of adventure without having to first create it and then to really have full responsibility for conducting it.
Speaker 1:Right which I think the movie gets right with what you described in her choosing the Chris Evans character, because he's aspiring to be an actor and he's still trying, he's still slugging through, doing his theater work and whatnot which was attractive to her. And and then they, and then they, and this was really just. This is where I get irritated and annoyed with with Hollywood. The Pedro Pascal was like a Nepo baby, right, and his mom had started the venture capital firm which I'm just going to. I'm going to point out these statistics because it's just so annoying to me.
Speaker 1:I looked up how many venture capital firms have been started by women. It's like three percent in the world, right? So they find the most ludicrous thing. And then I found, then I looked up how many billionaires are self-made versus inherited their money Two thirds of billionaires. So the majority of billionaires are self-made versus inherited their money Two thirds of billionaires. So the majority of billionaires are self-made. So they portrayed it accurately in her choosing the one that was going to bring the adventure and has the direction. But they flipped it the wrong way. He would be the one all day long and in real life he's going to be the one that she chooses and it's going to be because he's self-made and because he has created the life that he has wanted. Usually, now, that's nothing against the actors and aspiring actors and struggling theater people et cetera, but it was flip-flopped in the movie.
Speaker 2:So I was born and raised in la santa monica specifically, and I was fourth. I'm fourth generation from santa monica, so like we were there long before really, hollywood was kind of doing its thing long before we were. Like all attractive people from the other 49 states are like importing themselves into southern california long before that, like my great-grandparents had like a fish market or something I don't know. Attractive people from the other 49 states are like importing themselves into Southern California Long before that, like my great grandparents had like a fish market or something. I don't know exactly the story. So I, you know there's a little bit of there's a little bit of a question of the aspiring actor and, you know, chasing the dream. I mean, geez, I was a music major. You know, I understand having the passion for an art, but you need to take care of business also. Like if you're a guy and you know, even if you're in the entrepreneurial world, you know, and you're starting a business or you're, you know, you're, you're, you're you, you have some kind of calling that is outside the standard safe nine to five track. If you know, whether it's artistic, whether it's entrepreneurial, whether it's that, you, just you don't want to be tied to the man and you don't want to have to show up to an office every day, that's all fine, but you need to be an adult and a grown up and realize that you need to provide certain basic standards I guess we can say that certain a certain basic level of stability, a certain basic level of lifestyle and a certain basic level of achievement, really in social eyes, in order for you to feel like women are going to find you attractive. Chris Evans, thank you. I got my list. I'm looking at the actors' names. This totally worked. I got my list. I'm looking at the actors. This totally works.
Speaker 2:Chris Evans doesn't do that. Chris Evans is living the life of a mid 20 year old. You know, aspiring actor when he's in his mid 20s, that makes sense. But then you move in. You know, 1012 years later he's still in the same place. That is the problem. He didn't grow up. This is, I believe, what women call the Peter Pan syndrome. You know, they're sick of guys that just don't grow up, they don't step into the adult role and take care of responsibilities and guys. You can have them both. You can have your dreams, you can have your ambitions, but you need to take care of business as well, if you want to be taken seriously.
Speaker 1:So that's a great point and I want to tie that into why oftentimes women don't want to date divorced fathers. And I would say that the conversations that I have had with women that don't want to do that is because they don't want to deal with that. It's often a dad that has not been taking accountability for what his life is about, what his children, getting his act together, and she just doesn't want to get wrapped into having to be the mommy to kids, mommy to him and all of the stuff that goes into that dynamic. Like we said earlier, it's already a complex dynamic for a woman to have to get into that. So that just goes. And again, this doesn't mean that we have to have all of our stuff together, but we've got to be working really hard to do it. And that takes me to another point, which is it's sometimes you I would have to disagree a little bit with you can have all of it exactly how you want it. So let me just put that caveat to it you can have everything you want, just maybe not exactly how you want it, because there's going to be constraints that you have as a divorced dad dating. You're going to have responsibilities with children that you have as a divorced dad, dating. You're going to have responsibilities with children. You've got to be working and bringing an income in enough to be able to support yourself, maybe child support, your kids the lifestyle that you need for your kids. So there is going to have to be.
Speaker 1:And I'll use an example from my life is when I had my daughters full-time. There was a timeframe where I was a single, 100% single dad, taking care of my daughters 100% of the time. My business floundered because doing that full-time, it was a choice between taking care of the kids and they were younger, right Like elementary school and being able to dedicate the full time into a business and being there the hours that you need there was just. It was a choice that I had to, I had to make. So you can, but, but it doesn't mean that I didn't have a great relationship with my daughters. We didn't have fun.
Speaker 1:I was still also dating, just in a different, in a different context. And my business I survived, right. So the business I didn't make multi. You know, I've made multi millions of dollars. I've lost multi millions of dollars. That was not a time I was making multi millions of dollars, right so that was a time where it was just getting by financially, but it was the mindset then that had to change right. Myself, but it was the mindset then that had to change right.
Speaker 2:Myself, yeah, yeah, I want to echo.
Speaker 2:You know you were talking about the things that women get turned off on when they're thinking about dating a single dad, and I think the common theme underneath that is the women are imagining, perceiving, you know, projecting themselves into a situation and they're feeling tired by it already.
Speaker 2:They're feeling burdened, they're seeing responsibilities that they don't want to have and I think you know and feel free to speak into it from your own experience. But I feel like there's a certain if you want to, if you want your success rate to go up as a single dad dating, you need to really present your situation as a situation that's not going to burden the woman on the other side of the table, that you are handling it, you're taking care of it financially, you're not looking for somebody, you're not hoping that somebody is going to come over and start doing laundry and taking care of kids so that you can go back to chilling out on the couch and I'm not saying that you ever did that, but women have a perception of men doing that in domestic environments with children. I think, as a single dad dating, you have to really do a good job of presenting a low load offering to them. They're not seeing how this is, if they step into this and they start getting involved with it, that nothing is going to be put onto their backs, nothing is going to burden them before they really want that to be the case. What do you think?
Speaker 1:Exactly. I think you hit the nail on the head, and so what I will typically do is I will describe the environment and the situation, and now I've had a highly contentious, high conflict divorce and post divorce. So I've had to be very conscientious about how I manage that and how I insulate somebody from dealing with that, which I feel I've done a decent job around. But I will be upfront about that, that it's been high conflict, that it is contentious, but you don't and I'll say it, you don't have to worry about it. There might be little things here and there that pop up, but as long as we're communicating about stuff, then there's nothing that we can't deal with Now.
Speaker 1:Saying that is one thing, but I do do that, I do do I do that early on on? Maybe the first no-transcript. There's going to be a time of having to wait it out, kind of see if that's true, and if they're not, I would say that's something assigned to look at. If they're not being cautious first and they're just diving right in and want to be like stepmom right away, that that might be an indication that you gotta pull back the reins and say maybe she's got something else going on that you, you don't know about yet right.
Speaker 2:So absolutely yeah yeah, when, when it comes to the oh shoot, lost my thought. Sorry, totally lost it. Keep on going, jude.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, well, well, and and that is important. Those conversations are important to have and your intentionality is important to know going into dating with somebody so and and so that goes back to know what your values are. But then, when you know what your values are, know then what you are wanting to accomplish by dating. It could be just companionship, and that's okay, because I can't tell you the number of times that I've heard guys and I've had these conversations hey, I just want to enjoy time together. I'd like to do stuff, but I just want companionship. Right now I'm not mentally, emotionally available to you. I'm not going to be that person right now for you, and you just need to know that. So that doesn't mean it's never going to happen. It might be three months, it might be nine months I know, I'm just not there. Or it could be. Hey, I've done the work, I've been dating for a decade, I'm ready, I really know what I want.
Speaker 2:And this is what I'm looking for. I'm looking back on the market. I'm in the shop window with a price tag on my neck.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly, exactly, which. You know that scares lots of women off, right? Because here's the thing to understand, guys is, women are going through a lot of this same stuff too, and they're thinking some of this stuff. But it's incumbent upon us to lead these conversations and, in turn, lead the relationship.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and leading those conversations begins with putting yourself out there first, what I call being vulnerable first. It might be a stretch of the word vulnerable, but I'm going to put myself out there so she can see it. The fundamental thing I believe you touched on it was your women need to feel safe in order to move forward. The women that don't need to feel safe and just do and jump right in with both feet yeah, that's something to watch out for. But the thing that's interesting, when you're a single dad and you're dating, you've got double duty in that sense of security. So the first question is am I safe with this man? Can I trust this man? If I say no to this man, will he listen or is he going to get too emotional or too horny to hear what I'm saying? That's a question that a woman is going to ask with every single man that she's on a date with.
Speaker 2:The second element that she has to feel safe with is your situation. When you're a single man with no kids, the situation is pretty simple. Really. There's not a whole lot coming with it. However, she is, and women are much more environmentally and socially driven than men are. They know there's another parent. They know that these kids are traveling back and forth and they're highly sensitive to what that environment is going to be like and they don't want to absorb that crap. So they're asking first, am I safe with this man? But then they're asking am I safe in this situation? Am I safe with these kids, with this ex, with all these different elements? And so it's not enough to establish to the woman she can trust you as a man. You need to show her that she can also trust the situation that she's walking into by being involved in your life. What do you think about that dude? Does that resonate with your experience?
Speaker 1:100%. And the only thing I'll add to that is that takes time, so that takes time and I highly highly recommend taking that time to allow that to unfold in a natural way, to allow her to see that and feel that before getting really physically involved or really intimately involved or starting to introduce kids and all that stuff, Really try to take your time and if you think you're going slow, go about 50% slower, more, right. Okay. So because we, that's just natural, we want to and we want to jump and we that's why we procreate, right. But if you think you're going slow, slow it down even even more.
Speaker 2:Yeah, what do they say in motorcycle school? Slow is smooth, smooth is fast. I think it's very true when it comes to dating. When you slow it down, more it's going to be smoother, and the smoother it is, the faster it's going to end up going. So this actually reminds me Dr John Gray, the author of Men Are From Mars, women Are From Venus. You know old book, 30 years old now, I think something like that. But there's one line that he puts in there, that is, men are like blowtorches and women are like ovens.
Speaker 2:So you know we want to jump in there. We're the blowtorch, like you know. Turn the valve, whoosh. You know you've got this big burst of flame and you go from zero to all hot real fast. And then also, similarly, we can go from all hot to not interested just as fast. So we're like blowtorches on and off very quickly.
Speaker 2:Women on the other side of the spectrum are more like ovens. I want my frozen pizza. However, that oven is going to take a minimum of 20 minutes before I can even take the pizza out of the freezer, get the plastic wrap off of it, put it on the cookie sheet, slide it in and then start to cook. I mean like we're talking in, you know like 40 minutes. You know it's like that's an oven and so in the dating scenario, you know, I mean men are like I guess you could call it fast food. You know, it could be like picking up a pizza versus warming up the oven to cook a pizza and all of that.
Speaker 2:But the flip side and I'm sure most men listening to this podcast can relate to this that women will hold on to that heat, they will hold on to that chemistry, they will hold on to that desire when you're like girl, why are you still here? I am not feeding you anymore. I unplugged the oven a while ago and it's still hot. That's the wonderful nature of ovens. They take a long time to warm up, but once they're there, you can count on them to really be there. And that's, and then a lot of times, I think, is where women get frustrated with guys, is they're. They're wondering why, why? How can this guy just suddenly go cold on me? How can this guy suddenly lose interest? Because in their nature, once they're warmed up, they're going to retain that heat and that interest for quite a while. So just want to throw that out there.
Speaker 1:I like that.
Speaker 2:Go ahead.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I like that. Actually, although I'm going to, I'm going to up, I'm going to, I'm not going to upgrade.
Speaker 2:I'm going to change that analogy for guys and that's to a smoker. So I like, I like smokers and smoking meat. Right, I know there's probably some guys listening.
Speaker 1:We were talking cigars here for a minute and I'm like where are you going with this? No, no, no, no, no, no to a smoker. And it's the same concept. It's low and slow, you're taking your time and it's really filling up the meat with more flavor, right, it's going to add more flavor. It's going to add more flavor. It's going to add more moisture. It's going to last longer. It takes significantly longer, right, it takes significantly longer. It's kind of the same oven concept, right, because you're doing it really really low, but I don't even think anybody bakes anything at 200 degrees or 225 like a smoker. I mean, you're literally taking five times the amount of time that it would take.
Speaker 1:Think of that relationship, the same way as your smoker and everything that you're adding into that in that time, which is, you're adding water for moisture, you're adding more chips for smoke, you're adding smoke. That's all enhancing the relationship. And and while you're doing that, you're adding a rub on the, on the meats too, like there's so many different things that you're doing, you might, you might wrap it for a while at a certain point. There's so many different things, but while you're doing that, what is what is, what is happening is exactly what dallas just described, which is then you're, you're creating this like, like this almost container for her. Right, then that she is like, oh, wow, yeah, I feel I feel really good, I feel really comfortable, I feel really safe in this, you know, in this smoker with all, with all of this stuff, right, right, I mean, come on, guys, can guys can get to this one, right, like I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna be able to smoke meat anymore, dallas, without thinking about my next relationship.
Speaker 1:So, this weekend, when I'm smoking some meat, I'm going to be thinking about this now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and what you're doing that entire time is you are literally transforming that meat, you know, and if you and if you try to transform it in a flash, you're going to burn the outside and the inside is not going to be cooked. What you're talking about is a slow transformation so that it can permeate the, the entire subject matter. You know, piece of piece of meat in place of woman, because because that's the thing is, we do want to transform them into someone that is way into us when we're a stranger. They're not, and it takes time for them to warm up to it.
Speaker 2:I want to bring up some of the really typical philosophy and rules and just popular thinking out there that guys have that can really trip you up in this process. So one of them is like okay, well, it's. You know, first date, we kiss. Okay, well, that's sort of an arbitrary rule. If you guys have a great connection and the kiss doesn't feel right, put it back in, jude Smoker. You know, like, wrap that shit up, give it another rub and come back in a week, and you know, and then open it up and see how it smells, see how it's doing. And even on the second date it's like oh man, if she doesn't kiss me on a second date, like no way, like this, this she's not into it, from a predetermined mindset of what this will look like. If there isn't a kiss on the second date, I'm out of here, she's closed off or whatever that can really get in the way of the process of the transformation that happens inside the smoker.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, and that brings up the point of all this stuff that's on the Internet game theory, all the other stuff that's there. Take some of that with a grain of salt. If it's going to help you to be more confident in how you are, how you're interacting with a woman, that gives you some, maybe tips on stuff, that's great. Don't take this stuff as, like you said, well, it's got to be day one you kiss. By day three she should sleep, like all this crap that's out there. It is completely arbitrary. Every person is unique and different. Each one of you that's listening is unique and different. You bring all your unique and different things from your entire life and your personality to a relationship. The person you're with is all that too, so when you bring them together, it's its own unique and different relationship, and so you've got to just know that all of what you're just describing, dallas, is just take it with a grain of salt and then focus in. If you're focused in on yourself and how you're showing up and then taking the cues from how she is showing up and then also communicating, I would say, dallas, right, like you're going to know if you're talking about this stuff or you're creating that environment to where maybe somebody would feel comfortable. You know, are you going to? Is somebody going to? Is somebody going to feel comfortable if you're like out hiking and running around to start making out with you? Probably not Right, so that's don't try to do that Like, but maybe if you had a romantic dinner and you went for a walk around the lake after or something like that, then maybe there's an opportunity there. So you got to put some thought into that too, and then that makes it. You know, here's another way to think of it.
Speaker 1:And so I'm so ridiculously hopelessly romantic to Dallas is, when I'm thinking about this, I think, well, there's never going to be another opportunity, there's never going to be another first date with this person. So when I show up for a first date, I'm like I want this to be a great first date because maybe this is the woman I'm going to marry and we're going to be telling somebody maybe our grandkids, at least our children right now, or at least my children about our first date. I want that to be memorable. Same thing first kiss. I want the first kiss to be memorable.
Speaker 1:I want these things to be memorable because there's never going to be a second one. There's never going to be a second first date. There's not going to be a second first kiss. There's not going to be a second one of these, and I know it sounds ridiculously romantic, but I feel like if you approach things more intentionally like that, you're going to have a lot better outcomes going forward in all of your interactions. Even if it's a first date that doesn't work out right, it's still going to be a better experience for both.
Speaker 2:And I think women love it when a man comes to the table with what you just described meaning you want it to be a better experience for both. Yeah, and I think women love it when a man comes to the table with what you just described meaning you want it to be meaningful. You know, one of the things that is commonly said is women want an emotional experience. When you're looking for these things to feel special, the likelihood of it being a more emotional experience for her goes up, and I would say there's definitely a paradox, because you have to just let it unfold in the moment, and sometimes the quiet moments are the most profound and the most enjoyable. I think the analogy is a lot like sailing on the ocean the sailboat, the sailor inside that's the man, the ocean that's the woman, and everything else going on. You never move in a straight line to where you're going. You set a course, you're trying to get there, but the wind is blowing one way, waves are blowing another way. You have to change course several times and if you're a good sailor, you will get where you want to go, but you have to accept that this isn't a perfect straight line. You have to accept that this isn't a perfect straight line. You have to let the elements have the impact that they're going to have and, as much as possible, enjoy the paradox, the struggle that you have to do to navigate yourself to get there.
Speaker 2:And the word I like to use and I use it all the time is hold it loosely. It's like if you're expecting a date, a kiss on the first date, if you're expecting sex on the third date and if this doesn't happen, guys, that's rigid, that is really, really rigid. Women don't like rigid men. Rigid men are scary because what happens when that rigid man finally breaks? She doesn't want to be around for that. When that rigid man finally breaks, she doesn't want to be around for that. Rigid men are not men that women are attracted to, men that have things that they desire, men that make their move, men that step in and go for the kiss they are very attracted to those men. But men that are simply following rigid rules sorry, most women are just not into it.
Speaker 1:Yep, I agree 100%, all right. So let's recap what we just not into it. Yep, I agree, a hundred percent, all right. So let's recap what we learned from this movie.
Speaker 2:What movie I've forgotten.
Speaker 1:at this point, I think we, we yeah, we, we went from Hollywood to smoking meat, which I think is a is a. You know, I'm just going to say I think that's a great, a great analogy, but I think that's a great analogy. But let's, yeah, I don't know if there is a linear path of what we learned, but I would say that from the movie, with the kind of polarity that they show, that if I'm going to sum up, kind of what we talked about today, that there's, there's an in-between of what that that movie shows. Again, it's Hollywood. They make crap up, they take some of the most ludicrous part of parts of of things, and and, and, and and and show those, and then they and then they show a huge polarity and whatnot.
Speaker 2:But and I think that in-between place that Dakota Johnson is looking for is she doesn't want the actor that is still behaving like he's in his 20s when he's in his 30s, and she doesn't want the guy that simply checks all the boxes but doesn't bring some of the soul and life and adventure. What she wants is a man that fuses the two of those together, which means that the guy that's just following his dreams has to step up his game and make sure that he's bringing the things to the table, and it also means that these ridiculous expectations that social media gives us about how insanely wealthy we have to be are not necessary. You don't have to be that rich for a woman to be very happy with your financial situation. They really don't. It's really finding the right blend of the two together.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think the word that came to my mind when you were just describing all that is somebody who's real, like a man who's real and not a real man in the air quote thing, like I'm a real man, like somebody who's just showing up, real. That's who they, this is who I am, this is my situation, this is where I'm, this is what I want, this is where I'm going, this is how I'm trying to do it. I want to share that, have the adventure, love life, love your children and I think that's probably the majority of the dads that are listening. It's just figuring out how to get there, how to do it and how to find somebody with it, how to find somebody to do it with. But that's why you got to tune in next week and listen to the next episode, because we'll be covering something else that'll help you do that right Absolutely.
Speaker 2:And finding that path as a solid man when you're a single dad is just extra hard, extra difficult. But when you come through the other side of that you are even more solid. You know, after you've had the setback and then you build again, it's even stronger than it was the first time.
Speaker 1:And that's so sexy to a woman and a huge, huge opportunity to model for your kids. But that's a whole nother conversation. It was a great conversation. Actually. We did better the second time. So maybe we need to do this every week, like have a half hour conversation. I don't know if we've got the time to do that. I know I don't. I'm sure you don't. You're a busy man, all right, so how do the listeners.
Speaker 2:Get a hold of you. Getting a hold of me blackboxdatingcom. The place you start is really with the group coaching monthly subscription or annual subscription. That's where you get on board. You get to learn how all of it works. Two-week free trial to test it all out, see how you like it. I only take on private coaching clients. Do work in the field with men that have already done a certain amount of group coaching. I've just found that the group coaching is really where guys start. So yeah, check me out there. Jude same to you. How can people know more about what you do and how they can get all your wisdom?
Speaker 1:Yeah, Divorced Dads, check out thedivorcedadvocatecom. We've got resources there for you. Whether you're contemplating divorce, going through divorce, post-divorce, we've got something for you, and we've got resources that span from free to paid to private coaching as well. So check that out at thedivorcedadvocatecom Dallas always a pleasure. Look forward to chatting again next week. Thanks, Jude, See you next week. Bye.
