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Dads Dating After Divorce
Dating after divorce isn’t what it used to be—especially when you’re a dad. The rules have changed, the world has changed, and now you’ve got kids in the mix. Join Dallas and Jude as they share real-world strategies and insights from their work with dads and men at BlackBoxDating.com and TheDivorcedDadvocate.com.
Dads Dating After Divorce
14 - Dog Hair in the Bed: When Fido Becomes the Boyfriend
Ever noticed how some women seem more attached to their furry companions than their human partners? That's exactly what we're diving into today – with both humor and psychological insight.
The rise of "dog mom" culture represents more than just cute Instagram posts. For many women, dogs fulfill emotional needs that past relationships failed to satisfy: unconditional love without complex demands, loyalty without question, and comfort without judgment. When a woman chooses her dog's company over meaningful human connection, she's often protecting herself from past relationship disappointments.
Looking beneath the surface of this dynamic reveals important lessons for divorced dads navigating the dating landscape. Rather than feeling threatened by a woman's close bond with her pet, understanding the underlying psychology can help you approach these relationships with confidence and compassion. Does her attachment to her dog represent unmet emotional needs? Is she seeking safety and control she hasn't found in human relationships?
We explore practical communication strategies that work – from using "help me understand" questions that open dialogue without judgment, to painting a positive vision of what you uniquely bring to the relationship that a dog simply cannot. The most effective approach isn't competing with her pet but complementing what her pet provides.
Most importantly, we discuss how a man who's confident in his masculine energy – who has his own mission and purpose – doesn't feel threatened by a woman's relationship with her dog. Instead, he recognizes that he brings novelty, adventure, and depth that no animal companion can provide.
Whether you're currently dating someone whose dog seems to take priority or simply want to better understand relationship dynamics, this episode offers both laughs and practical wisdom. Subscribe now and join our community of divorced dads navigating the wild world of dating with authenticity and purpose.
Hello and welcome to Dad's Dating After Divorce, the podcast where we navigate the wild wild world of dating post-divorce with a healthy dose of reality, which we're going to give today and hopefully with some laughs as well. I'm Jude Sandoval. I am the founder of the Divorced Advocate and your co-host, and joined by my esteemed and the one and only Dallas Bluth, founder of Black Box Dating. Dallas. Good to be back in the studio again today with you.
Speaker 2:Great to be here, dude. Thanks so much for calling me back week after week after week to dive into the fantastic world of dads dating after divorce.
Speaker 1:The fantastic or wild world. Like I said, it is and can be wild, but it can be fun too if you have the right mindset as well, which I think we've got today, because we've got a fun topic to talk about and we've just got to laugh about some of this sometimes because some of it is so ridiculous, but some of it is really. If you kind of pull the curtain aside and look beyond, what you're seeing on the surface can be enlightening and pretty helpful as well. So we've tentatively titled this because I should also point out to the dads listening that we don't script any of this. I come up with kind of a general outline, we come up with a topic. You don't really know and I don't really know how any of this is going to go.
Speaker 1:I've got the perspective of the divorced dads and going through that and dating as a divorced dad, and you're the dating and relationship expert that knows all about that.
Speaker 1:So we kind of come up with a topic and a working title which today is why do some women treat their dogs better than their men?
Speaker 1:Which I have experienced, which I have experienced, which I've heard from some men, whether they're married or not married or just in a relationship is frustrating to them.
Speaker 1:But we're going to talk a little bit about that because on the surface, sometimes guys will get a little bit butthurt, or or complain about this and like the dog's got gourmet food but she won't even cook dinner for me, or some other uh complaints. You know the the dog took a dump in the middle of the living room but she gets all pissed off at me if I don't empty that. Forget to empty the dishwasher, right, like some of these gripes that happen when you're in a relationship. So what we're going to try to do, dads, today, is find some humor in it, but also peel away the layers of the onion and help to unfold a little bit of the relational dynamics that might be going on around that. And even if you don't experience this or you're not experiencing it in a current relationship, it's going to be good information for you to know, because I shared with Dallas, just right before this, a very funny video about a woman who has a dog that is essentially utilizing the dog as a substitute romantic relationship, and it's just really, really funny.
Speaker 2:Well, dude, I just have to jump in. I mean, the term emotional support animal is completely applicable, you know, and we're using them as emotional support animals and, yeah, the video that you sent it basically gives a voice to the dog and we suddenly hear what the animal is potentially thinking and we realize, oh, this has been a one-way relationship really. We've been leaning on them and the humor of it was what does the dog maybe actually think about this relationship?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, exactly, well, all right, and so that's a good starting point for us. Is kind of this societal messaging around pets and and and and tied in with that a little bit? Also, I would say not a little bit is just kind of this quote unquote dog mom culture, right, if, if, if you will hear and, and so let's, let's talk about that, if you will here, and so let's talk about that, particularly if we start to see somebody, whether we're in a romantic relationship or we meet somebody that might start talking about their dogs in this dog mom. And I'll tell you what this is. Just for me, it's one of those things that I start perking up and I don't want to say red flags, but it'll start me down the path of asking questions about, like, okay, dog mom, there's just no comparison for taking care of a dog versus raising a child. It's just completely different, different worlds. So you moms that are listening out there, I, we recognize that as dads and that's just just just really, really crazy. But but there is, you know this, this whole thing about that, and so maybe let's talk about that.
Speaker 1:And then what's you know, what is that saying about our society? And then what's you know, what is that saying about our society? What is that saying also, maybe, about the person that we're talking about and I just want to put a disclaimer out there here is that you know we are not dog bashing here today at all. Right, we love dogs. I have a dog, charlie. He's great, but he's my dog, he's not my emotional partner. And dogs are great and there's a lot of positives and they're even finding scientific proof that they bring benefit to being in the family and being involved in dogs. So we're not dog bashing here by any means. We're just talking about it in a context of the relationship that somebody might have with them.
Speaker 2:So I was raised with six dogs myself. Well, at one point we had as many as six dogs in the house. So I love dogs, dogs and I get along really well. I usually pass the quote unquote sniff test from a dog because when you meet a woman and she's got a dog, one of the tests is does that dog like you or not I? It is very rare that I do not pass that sniff test when flying colors. I like dogs, I get along well with dogs.
Speaker 2:I also see dogs as not humans. I see dogs as having a particular place in life and, to your point, particularly when people are retired, when people are older in life and they need an extra responsibility whether they had children or not they're not raising kids when they're in their late 60s, 70s and 80s and having a dog as part of their life can be very stimulating, it can be very reassuring, it's a very healthy part of their life. But I think what we're talking about right now is the place of dogs, the role of dogs when you're in your 30s, 40s and 50s, and I think that the term dog mom honestly we can take the air quotes off it at this point because it is a legitimate choice. To come back to some of these societal type questions, it's a legitimate choice that a lot of adults are making. Birth rates are way, way down. From what I understand, the population is going to be on the decline, mathematically speaking.
Speaker 2:It doesn't sound like it's really a matter of opinion. It sounds like it's a matter of statistical fact, and part of this is well obviously people aren't having children. And, to your point, having a human child is way, way, way more responsibility, more work, more investment, more long-term commitment. It's a heavier job than having other types of companionship or other types of relationships. I'm sorry that sounded like I was talking about children like they're pets. They're not, but I think and I've met several women in their 30s and 40s that they're choosing to have relationships with dogs and they're not choosing to have children. Whether or not they're making the conscious trade-off between those two, I haven't really asked and I'm not sure I would get an entirely informed answer on their part, but the choice seems to be clear that they are very happy emotionally attaching themselves to a dog or a cat, or more than one, and they seem to be less motivated to have children at the same time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I would agree with that 100%. I don't feel like and this is just my observations that you would maybe get a real informed answer around if you did ask that question, and I don't think that, and maybe more so now. It is becoming a choice, but what I feel like is that this has become a whole cultural thing, and it and and and the challenge that I find in it is that it's it is creeping even more so. So once you start doing what is happening with you which you just described, there's the, there is the, the. If it is a choice, we'll. We'll call it a choice.
Speaker 1:All right, we'll talk about somebody that is understanding of their life and their life choices.
Speaker 1:So, if it is a choice, they have made that conscious choice that this is going to be their substitute for having a child.
Speaker 1:What I'm finding now, though, is that there's a creep to the next level, which is it starts to become a replacement for a romantic relationship, and kind of the humor in the video that we were talking about which is they're taking this whole other level which you talk about, like taking care of the dog, and there is some nurturing that goes with it. I know, before I was married, we got a dog, and that is oftentimes kind of the levels or the steps you take in a romantic relationship is getting a dog or a cat and doing that and taking care of that, and it's kind of a precursor to having kids, et cetera. So it's kind of a test thing and you kind of see how the other person reacts with that, but now it's substituting for a child and instead of that being a step, it is just the step, but then it's going to the next level, which, to me, then, is starting to delve into. Okay, what is this person missing in their life that they're needing to fill this with a non-human being that is going to be providing something that only, or they feel the women with dogs.
Speaker 2:And one of the things is, you know, I mean all of us have been burned in dating, all of us have been burned in relationships. We've all had our heart broken. We've all had things that we've hoped, things that we've been told, and been very, very disappointed, especially speaking to divorced dads. Everybody knows this story. Disappointed, especially speaking to divorced dads. Everybody knows this story.
Speaker 2:One of the things that's amazing about animals and dogs in particular they are incredibly loyal. They provide certain emotional components that really you know you're going to get them where you don't know from another human. If you're going to get it, you know that dog is going to be loyal. You know that dog is going to be happy when it sees you when you come home. You know that that dog is going to show appreciation. You know that that dog is not going to be unfaithful to you. You know that with that dog it's not really asking for hardly anything from you.
Speaker 2:A woman that's in a relationship with a man that man wants sex, that man wants a certain type of emotional support and speech, that man wants a certain type of freedom, that man wants a certain type of attention from her.
Speaker 2:It's very complex and that is asking a lot of the woman when with a dog, okay, there are certain responsibilities taking him for a walk and all that but they're really quite simple and the woman feels very much in control of all of those elements. When you compare that to a bunch of really lame boyfriends that you've had in your life, can you blame the woman for wanting a simpler relationship? And if the dog honestly provides her with a certain amount of feeling safe and protected, which they really do can you really blame her for welcoming a dog into her life as a replacement? Really, and it makes sense when women a lot of times are not getting these elements from guys or they've had a lot of past bad experiences. Part of it makes sense why they would turn to a dog and let that dog occupy that position in their life.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so can we describe what you just talked about as far as what a dog provides? Can we describe what you just talked about as far as what a dog provides? Can we? Would you would you feel good in just describing that as unconditional love, right, Like that's what they're, what they're experiencing from the dog is unconditional love.
Speaker 2:And I would add to that it's a simplified version of unconditional love. Unconditional from love from a human is more complex. Unconditional love from a dog is a dog's version of unconditional love, but yes, from a dog it is unconditional.
Speaker 1:Yeah right, like it's never going to be mad at you, right? It's never going to have the complex emotions that a human has. It's never going to hold a grudge. There's none of that higher consciousness that humans have. That you described as difficult, and is the difficult and challenging things about a romantic relationship? All of those other things that you described is what makes romantic relationships so much more challenging.
Speaker 1:But, going to your point of, can you blame them? I can't, because to me, you're not experiencing the real, unconditional love that we look for in a partnership, which is our design, our human design and what we're meant to be. You talked about birthing rates going down and you know there's less formations, there's less people getting married, like. There's all kinds of these things, and by substituting many of the other things dogs are just one of them there's a myriad of things that we've got in our society at this point that you can substitute for that romantic relationship that we need. Let's just not pretend about this. We need romantic relationships and we need interactions with other human beings in our lives. This is just a necessity that we have. So I can. So, while you say, like, can you fault them? Like I understand it, but I can't fault for me for saying like no, I'm not, I'm just I'm opting out, right, and this goes both ways, right? This is not just for the women doing this, this is for the men that are opting out also, or the MGTOWs, or any of the other ones that are opting out of these relationships and just focusing on one thing too. So it goes both ways. And so, on that note you did talk about, so we can agree that it's unconditional life, like we're all looking for that, they're looking for that, we're looking for that, that unconditional love. This is a very primordial, like very basic way that you get that through a dog. They're always going to give you the unconditional love and that's something that we always create.
Speaker 1:So, with that in mind, you brought something else up, which is control, right, like if you've been through so that was on my list, right, you nailed it Like that was one of the top ones, that's. That is, if you've been through these disappointing and maybe and maybe traumatizing or abusive relationships with with somebody you don't have a, you don't have control over what the next one's going to be like, and you're dealing with all those emotions and those issues that have come up in the past. Like, let's talk about maybe having some empathy around and start to ask those questions. So, like I said, one of the like when I start hearing you know, my dog sleeps with me or I'm a dog mom, or that stuff, I like like the antennas go up and I start asking lots of questions, right and and really to try to get to understand, like, what is the depth of this? Is this like some something you really need therapy about, or is this something that maybe we can, we can work through and, like, have a healthy relationship?
Speaker 2:therapy with someone other than your dog?
Speaker 1:Yeah because your dog is not qualified to help hold up the mirror appropriately.
Speaker 2:Precisely 100% accept it and it's fine. One of the things that I work with with my clients all the time is a ton of frustration. Men are very frustrated to the point of anger, to the point of powerlessness and to the point of just desperation and not knowing what to do. And the real problem is when our perception of the world we meet somebody who's a dog mom dog sleeps in the bed, there's dog hair everywhere and their whole schedule is run by their dog and they don't have time to meet and date a man it can get really, really frustrating for the guy on the outside.
Speaker 2:The whole reason I brought up the point of view of why a woman might turn to a dog for this is so that we can have compassion for the woman when we enter into it.
Speaker 2:If we have compassion for why this might make sense, where this might be coming from and how this is solving a problem for her. That was there long before we arrived. When we can understand that what it does is it defuses some of the anger and frustration that we can feel as a man approaching a woman who's already got a dog for a boyfriend and there is basically it's a two-way fork in that road. Either we can get frustrated and accusatory and say this is wrong and all that's going to do is turn her off and lock up the conversation and really things are not going to go forward very well, or you can say you know, it makes sense why she needed this up to this point and perhaps with me entering her life, with me fulfilling some of these roles, maybe that will start to transfer some of that need back into the human relationships in her life and it might help to re-regulate and provide a healthy dynamic that she didn't have before.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, but we also have to be very careful around that too, right? We don't want to be white knighting, we don't want to be fixing, we don't want to do some of that unhealthy stuff that we like as guys just naturally want to start doing. Which leads me to my next question. Is so, like you said, having compassion and understanding? That's different than accepting. So you can be compassionate, you can be understanding. You don't have to be accepting of this. Maybe that this does not work into your life and you just can't like. For me, dogs will never sleep in my bed. So if that's something that is part of your life and you just can't like, for me, dogs will never sleep in my bed. So if that's something that is part of your life, you think you're a dog mom and you want to sleep with your like we're never, it's just never. That's a, that's a full stop, right there. Like it's not going to ever work that is a line in the sand it is a, it is a line we're drawing it and
Speaker 1:no, no, if you, yeah, if you, if you lick your butt daily, you're just not not going to sleep in the bed with me Like, yeah, it's just so that understanding and the compassion around it. So my question to you is like, do you even get involved with this person? Is this somebody? Is this something that maybe? Hey, I'm a divorced dad, I got kids, I got a lot going on. I maybe is this just a sign of somebody that has not done the personal work to not fill the void that they're looking for through something else? Like and I'm going to it's a little bit of an extreme comparison, but it's maybe in the same vein as somebody that's utilizing a substance to numb something. So is that fair? Is that fair to look at it in?
Speaker 2:that light. I think so. I think it's fair to ask the question. I don't think it's fair to assume that the level of emotional dependency on an animal is the same as someone that's an alcoholic or smokes weed every day because they just need it to try to unwind and go to sleep. I don't think it's fair to assume that out of the gate. I think it's always, always fair to ask the question no-transcript. To me that's a red flag.
Speaker 2:You know that I'm basically like if a mother says that about her children, I'm going to say that's a green flag, of course, that those are the most important people in your life, absolutely Because they're dependent on you. A dog, yes, they are dependent on you, but it's a much smaller scale. The question that I would be asking as I'm talking to this woman getting to know her, going on more dates I would just be simply asking myself how much room is there for me in this woman's life and how much is this woman's life already occupied by a dog and she's looking for a man that kind of goes side by side with the dog at a similar sort of level and meets different needs, but really is sort of at the same level? I personally don't put human relationships on the same level as relationships with animals. I just don't.
Speaker 2:That was how I was raised. That is, I believe, what I would consider to be a healthy connection and attachment with animals. I think we just have to trust our gut when we well. I mean, one question is how much does this woman continually talk about her dog and bring them up? I've met women. They have a dog. I didn't even know it for a while. I consider that to be a very healthy relationship with a dog.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely, another phrase I like to use is help me understand, right.
Speaker 2:Already a great sign If you have to ask a woman.
Speaker 1:help me understand your relationship with your dog well no, yeah, like help me understand why you want to sleep with your dog, right like that. That's a. I feel like that is a legitimate question, like and, and, and I can say lots of times they have no real understanding of why, which then leads me to what you just described, which is they don't then have a really good grasp of where they're at and what that relationship is with their dog, how it compares to their relationships with the humans in their life, like they just haven't done the work and the analysis around that. If they can't answer some of this, some of those you know, help me understand why questions.
Speaker 2:So I just talking about conversation skills for a moment in something you know, in something like like, like, like your relationship with your dog. When we ask the question why, that is a more challenging approach to the conversation. It's a little more confrontational maybe and because we're basically putting it completely on them. If you said, can you express to me what it is that a dog or can you help share with me? That's a little bit softer way of maybe saying why and I understand you might not be using the word why I'm doing this for the sake of the audience, to realize, when you ask the question why, that is the highest almost it is way up there as far as confrontational speech patterns in a conversation yeah, no, the phrase is help me understand.
Speaker 1:Help me understand, okay. Yeah, help me understand. X. Help me understand. Help me understand. Okay, help me understand. X. Help me understand the dog sleeping. Help me understand.
Speaker 2:Wonderful. Okay, thank you. Thank you for clarifying that. I would add to it. If she doesn't have an answer, I wouldn't necessarily. I would look towards helping her articulate what she's feeling. A lot of women that I've been with, they're not words people. They're not good at bringing and articulating the thoughts at the conscious level. And for me, I don't want to disqualify a woman simply because she's not as verbally articulate and on the ball as I am. I've actually been told by women that they can be rather intimidated by how easily I articulate my thoughts. I don't want them to feel intimidated. I don't want them to feel like I'm putting them on the spot. So, in yours, help me understand and then possibly bring up suggestions. Is it the fact that you're cold at night? Is it the fact that you like knowing there's something, something else alive in your bed? Is you know? And what I'm alluding to is could I as a man be providing some of these things that the dog has been providing? Cause you don't want to feel that alone in the middle of the night.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so can I, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And this, I didn't anticipate us going down this route, but I think it's really important because what you just described to like, I can articulate, like I've done a lot of thought around it, but I'm also able to articulate things well. So, same thing, I'm able to articulate whatever it is that my desires, my feel like, whatever it is. But oftentimes I've run into this too Women are, do not, are not able to like they might have a feeling so, but here's, here's the only, here's the only challenge I find in what you're just describing which is coming up is oftentimes there's just agreement around it, because they want to be pleasing to you about what you are, about what you're saying, so, so, so maybe, when you're doing that, have it be multi-dimensional, is it?
Speaker 1:Is it like you? Just, you just said three things in a row, is it? Do you want to have somebody in you know, something warm in your bed? Like, like, is it multiple things so that they have multiple, multiple, like a multiple choice question, multiple answers, but there isn't a single answer? And if, if they don't have an answer, what is the follow-up question to that? Like, if the answer is, oh, I really don't know, I haven't thought about it. What, what is, what is? What is the follow-up to that? Because I get that I what I, what I've? My experience is they either pick one just to pick one because they can't articulate it, or it's I really don't know, because they just don't know and they haven't really thought about it.
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, one is also along with somebody being able to articulate themselves. Well, we have an expectation that the other person can articulate themselves well on the spot. So we've asked the question. Give it time, let that, let that sink in. Give that person time to come back to it days later, weeks later, and that might have actually germinated some genuine answers. Give it time Again, I usually know what I'm thinking on the spot and having that expectation, or particularly having that ability, can really fluster the woman and she can feel, you know, really anxious.
Speaker 2:So, essentially, let the topic drop for a minute, let it go, let it digest a little bit. You know, come back to it later and go. I'm just curious. You know we talked a couple of weeks ago about this. Has anything come to mind since the last time? I'm just curious. And maybe there is, maybe there isn't, and somebody that is engaged with the relationship and someone that is listening to what you're asking about and cares about what you're asking about is probably going to think about it. Given it, another thought in the last two weeks is showing a certain amount of attention and care for what you're talking about, and that is a two-way street, by the way, women are very much interested in saying what did the guy listen to in what I said and did he think about it? Did he bring it back? It shows a whole different level of awareness?
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely, and if they're asking you questions like that, that is a tremendous sign, right? Because then what they're doing exactly the same thing that we're saying that you should be doing, which is asking questions to try to understand, to try to see where this relationship falls, where the opportunities are, if there are, because we've talked in the past about we bring so much into relationships because, especially if we're divorced dads, we've got all of this stuff that we bring in I don't want to say baggage, I would say experiences that we've had through life, and then we have what we're experiencing now, and so do women, and oftentimes we're going to be dating women that have children and all of their experiences too. So the help me understand question is a really good one, and I want to also add to what you said about this being like. This isn't just a question about dogs sleeping in your bed. This is a good question about other big things in your life.
Speaker 1:Help me understand what a life looks like with a partner and a blended family, and questions like that and your point about maybe come back to that later, because sometimes they haven't, I think they haven't even thought, haven't even thought about it. So the difference here masculine mind, male mind, feminine mind, female mind, right Very different on how we approach things. Like we've maybe thought about this in a linear fashion and thought about a scenario A through Z right. Like we've mapped this out a myriad of different ways. Don't necessarily or haven't necessarily done that, and part of our responsibility as masculine leaders in a relationship, even if you're just starting dating, is maybe starting to map that thought process with questions like help me understand and then following up with it and doing that on an ongoing basis, right?
Speaker 2:Yes, absolutely. And another component that I feel is very, very effective and maybe you don't do this right up front. Maybe you ask the questions, you let those questions sink in, you let them come back to it later in time and expand on it. But eventually what you really want to do is you want to present a picture of what is attractive to you, why it's attracted to you and because a lot of times, well, I don't want a dog in my bed. That's not a positive picture. That is confrontational. You're basically saying no and rejecting someone in a certain area.
Speaker 2:If you can say I love how clean and smooth it feels, just the two of us being intertwined in bed. I want it to just be us when we're in bed. When you say it in those particular words, you're using words that a lot of women are thinking also. They don't want anyone else in that bed. They want it to be nice and clean. They want it to be a nice, clear connection.
Speaker 2:When you describe being alone with a woman in bed like that, very few women are like no, I don't like that, I want it to be lots of messy, I want lots of other animals involved. They're just not going to say that, but it's entirely possible that they haven't seen it that way Again. The last relationships they had they didn't like. So ex-boyfriend out the door dog in the door dog in the bed. And now this is what bedtime looks like and feels like.
Speaker 2:When you paint a picture of what laying in bed can be like, with just two human bodies and without all the dog hair and slobber and extra heat and weight on top of the blankets, all that stuff that comes into place and it's just the two of you, she might have completely forgotten what that looks like. She might have completely detached from it. I think it's our job as men to bring an attractive picture. That's. The key is, you want to paint a picture that is attractive to a woman as opposed to one that is negating, rejecting and just limiting and trying to tear apart the picture that she already has.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So I feel like that is a terrific point and you know, I'm just sitting here thinking to myself. I'm kind of laughing like we're using such a ridiculous example.
Speaker 2:Okay, but it's not, it is I know it is Well.
Speaker 1:To me, that's the point in why it's so ridiculous. Is that we're like having this conversation, but I think it's a good? Is that we're like having this conversation, but I think it's a good one? Like we can all relate to it, like we can relate to it as guys and dads and women, and we're seeing this and we're experiencing this. But I also want to bring this to the bigger picture, which is these conversations, even these little conversations that seem ridiculous, have a broader scope to them, because the feedback that you're going to get from this conversation and say, and so, for example, like you're saying, okay, you've described what you envision and are inviting her into that, right, like we talk about creating your environment, creating, creating a picture, moving things in that direction of that picture. So, when we get to this and when you get the fee, you got to pay attention to the feedback, because here's, here's a mistake I've made lots and lots of times, is that I get, yeah, me too, and I'm like, oh, cool, like and, and, and they I'm like they buy into, like they want to be part of it.
Speaker 1:And then we start to get down the road a little bit and then, using this example, which has never happened to me, because I just like I can't get past the dog thing, like if the dog showed jumped up in the bed I would lose my mind anyway. But like you get down the road and then you describe that, you describe that and then the actions don't support what they have said, they believe also. Then what kind of like what happens with the conversation? Then and again we're using this dog example. Guys, I know you might be saying you two are just insane using this example. I think it is a really good one because you're going to run into it, but it's a very funny, friendly, easy one to put your mind around. But it's going to be the same for big conversations like what does our environment look like with a blended family? What are our values around spirituality or whatever it is? This is a placeholder for that, but you know it's. It applies the same dude.
Speaker 2:I don't think any man listening to this is going. You guys are going too far into this.
Speaker 1:If anything, they're saying finally, somebody is calling this out, somebody is ringing the alarm on the dog, that's actually what they're thinking, so okay.
Speaker 2:So when it comes to the woman, that's simply saying oh yeah, me too, giving a little bit too much of an easy agreement. So I see this as coming back to a question about how the male and female minds do operate differently, and I see a particular, I see particular roles, and it's because it's it's what gives the most life to, you know, a masculine mind, and what's gives the most life to a feminine mind. When we're co-creating Cause here we're talking about what do we want a life to look like? You're co-creating, both of you need to be contributing, Both of you need to be winning in the process. So the way I see it is that the masculine mind our job is to be the author From scratch. We come up with and generate from scratch things that look appealing, that sound good, that we think would be fun, and we've talked about it in past episodes. You essentially compose invitations that you extend to the woman and she says yes or no. That's what the responsibility is, and men tend to feel alive when we come up with ideas from scratch that we can offer to a woman.
Speaker 2:Now, the feminine mind and obviously this is not like all black and white. It's not that men are doing all the from scratch creativity and women are doing none of it. Of course women are doing some of it and vice versa. But women I have seen really, really enjoy it if a man generates the ideas and then they're able to edit them. So man is the author coming up with the rough draft manuscript of tonight's activity, or what it's going to look like with or without dogs in the bed. And then the woman it likes the fact that she didn't have to put all that out there, that she didn't have to expend that creative energy, but that she has essentially editing power in the process and go. Well, what if we did this? Or what about that? What if we took it from three dogs down to one dog? How does that work? And that is in a lot of ways. And again, men, we can edit and women can.
Speaker 2:Author. I'm not saying this is all 100% one or the other, but generally speaking, that seems to be what brings men and women to life. And the trick is, if a woman is saying, oh yeah, me too, I love that. If she's not, actually she needs to be kind of contributing and editing a little bit, so that you know. One, she really heard what you're talking about. Two, she's processing it, thinking it, because the odds are she's going to want to adjust things a little bit along the way way. For me, that's the indication that we have two-sided buy-in to the life, to the vision, to the type of experience that we both want to have. We need the guy putting the idea out there and then checking to see does the woman try to edit and adjust things so that we can find something in the middle that works for both of us?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that's a great way to describe it. I like the author editing one One I've heard before is the men build and women like build a house and women make it, make it a home right, the same, that's the same concept. Like, like they refine everything to be, which is really the kind of the design, right, they enhance and refine and make everything detailed and beautiful and just really really nice, right, that's the masculine-feminine dynamic, when happening in a healthy manner, is really absolutely phenomenal and it's inspiring for men, it is comfortable for women, it is just a really really nice circumstance to find yourself in. So okay, so we talked about that. Let's pivot a little bit. I think that was really really good information. I hadn't even that wasn't even in my notes right To get into about the conversations around that and it comes like Dallas.
Speaker 1:The thing that strikes me every time we're talking is it? It comes down to how we're communicating with women and it's almost because we communicate so differently that scene and I can speak to working with so many different divorce or divorcing dads that there's so many times and one of the first things I asked them is like what have you done to try to save things before you may have gotten. You may have gotten to this point and is there an opportunity? Because it's way, way easier to save the marriage than it is to go through a divorce and have that and then find a new, like dude. That's way way more complicated.
Speaker 1:And almost exclusively, I find that some sort of breakdown in communication, absent some sort of abuse or significant personal disorder or something like that. Communication is like the number one thing. That is the reason why a relationship fails. So it just strikes me, every time we're talking about this it comes to how did you communicate, how can you refine that? How can you do this better? So just something I want to point out. And guys start to think, like, think about, pay attention to how you're doing that, whether it's with your romantic partner, with your kids, at work, et cetera. How are you communicating? Right? Like I know that there's a way that I come up and communicating like I'm pretty black and white, like the drill sergeant kind of thing. Like why, because that's my answer that does not work really well, especially with a woman, right?
Speaker 2:So I I, I a hundred percent agree, and it is funny, you know, regardless of whether we're talking about a Hollywood movie or dogs, or you know, you know smokers. You know regardless of what it is. You're right, the principles really are few and and really pretty basic. The interesting thing is that the way they play out is infinite. Is that the way they play out is infinite. So these principles, just you know, and almost everything that we say on any topic, of course it can be refuted. Of course it always, always, depends on lots and lots of things. I assume the audience knows that.
Speaker 2:The thing about communication and I am 100% agree that good communication is most of a relationship but a big part of having that communication is you have to have clarity before you enter into that communication. A lot of people and a lot of the men that I work with, they enter a conversation thinking they're going to figure out where they stand or what they want. We have the three C's in black box dating. It's confidence, communication and connection. Confidence is getting square with yourself and knowing.
Speaker 2:I don't want a dog in my bed when I'm sleeping at night period. Maybe it's okay in the afternoon because we throw a blanket over it and it's picnic time on the bed and I'm okay with that. But when it's time to actually go to sleep, the dog is not allowed on the bed. You know, I'm confident and square myself with that. And when I bring that to a communication, when I'm expressing it to somebody, if I'm entering a conversation sort of like, well, I'd like to talk to you about the dog in the bed situation, I'm just, how do you feel about it? It's very wishy-washy and well, we're communicating, we're talking about it. Well, you need to know where you stand first and be able to communicate in a one-way direction first and then see how does that other person a woman in this case reciprocate and come back to you and when they reciprocate and you have that two-way vulnerability and communication. That's where that last C connection really comes into play.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that's absolutely perfect. And it kind of leads me into what I wanted to pivot to, which is let's, with the time that we've got remaining, chat a little bit about, about. So, if they are substituting this for the romantic, what is it that they might be missing in their lives that they're obviously needing from a masculine partner? Because, because there there is that, that's that's, that's that's happening and and it's unfortunate, I I always feel really sad when I see this, like, oh man, this person has not experienced really the, the fullness of what I just described, a healthy masculine, feminine dynamic where they're feeling like all of these things. Let's talk about some of those things that a dog would be substituting for them, that you alluded to earlier, that we can like.
Speaker 1:And let me just be clear, guys, we're not, we're not fixing. Ok, don't get into fixing, don't get into white knighting. Be aware of it, be understanding of it, be empathetic around it, but don't be trying to be like OK, well, here I come, I can replace the dog, right, okay, you're not going to do that. If she hasn't figured it out on her own that she's doing this, the probability you're going to raise that awareness is really really low, okay, but just know what that is and it's going to help you, like maybe there's somebody who hasn't thought about these things and then when you start asking those questions, it'll help me understand and then you can start doing the invitations like Dallas has talked about. So take us through a little bit about what they're missing.
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, what they're missing is certain things being delivered in an effective way. So what are dogs really effective at? They're really good at being devoted. They're really good at giving focused, undivided attention and love unconditionally to a woman. They're very, very good at that. A lot of men not so good at that. A lot of men are really good at splitting up their interest into a lot of different ways, and women crave that. Women need to feel a certain amount of being picked and in not intensity, but a certain amount of feeling special, that they are being chosen by their man. The dog picked them. They are their guardian, they are their woman. That is it for them for the rest of their lives. It's hard to really beat that level of devotion from a dog, but realizing that the dog does that well and can ask yourself well, am I bringing that level of pure focus, pure choosing her, pure devotion, am I bringing that to the table? Yeah, safe, safe, yeah go ahead.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, let's, let's talk about that for a quick second, because so I'm. So what I'm hearing is guys saying, well, like how am I going to do that when we're just dating, like I'm not going to jump in and be like, oh, I'm devoted to you, like that would be a big turnoff, right, so don't, don't go that route, but maybe we can. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, we're taking just presence, like I describe as what you just described as presence, presence and being present.
Speaker 2:Right, Like yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, go ahead.
Speaker 2:I'm jumping in on yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm jumping in on you. It's absolutely it's presence. You know what is your presence when you're there and being present. And another and a third element I would throw in. It's sort of paradoxical, but the more you're doing with your life that has nothing to do with this date or this woman, the more you are actually setting on the back burner for an evening when you're with her and she realizes, wow, like, for example, if you imagine I was, you know, jeff Bezos or whatever, and I've got tons of stuff going on. Lots of people want my time and everything. If I put everything aside to spend a weekend with you, you know how important you are to me and the only way that you know is because of all the other things that I normally am doing in my life that I have set to the side. So, paradoxically, part of the reason that you demonstrate presence and devotion and focus on someone is to have so many other things in your life that you are temporarily putting on pause so that you can give them your undivided attention.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and so the next part of that is when you do get in an exclusive relationship and you then then you, you need to continue to keep that that being present happening all the time, cause then that's when you can get lackadaisical about hey, we spend so much time together, I'm not really present, I'm not paying attention, I'm not listening to what you're saying, I don't hear what your feelings are. It's, you know, all of the things that we hear as complaints about after the honeymoon phase. That's then become problems.
Speaker 2:And if you want, if you want a good, concrete image, you know, think, go back to hunter, gatherer societies. You know, fine, leave the dog with the, with the woman you know, because you need to go out on the hunt and she doesn't know when you're coming back and she knows that you're going to bring things back that that dog isn't bringing back. You know you're bringing back food, you're bringing back stories and adventures. You're hopefully bringing back all of your male companions, but you might not Meaning, you're bringing back a suspense and an edge to the whole life process that you're going through as a tribe.
Speaker 2:The dog isn't doing any of that. The dog has a limit to its devotion and when you, as a man, have a much higher purpose, women feel that you need to maintain that. Going out on the hunt, going out, you know, club something over the head, drag it home, be impressive, you know about what you do with your life and what you know it's like. What is the phrase Like? How can I miss you If you're always here? Don't always be there, go out and do something else. The dog is always there.
Speaker 2:And go ahead and let that dog, you know, play that role at that point. But you as a man are going to fulfill a completely different type of role when you do it effectively.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly. Well, that goes to the masculine nature of being on mission, and that is something that is lacking sorely in our society, because that's not been something that I feel and this was my case as well Not not been conveyed to me as a young man, is that you need to be on mission, you need to have a, a goal and and look, that's not necessarily. Look, that's different, that's different for different guys. We're not saying that you got to be Jeff Bezos or Elon Musk or trying to to to do that. Your mission could be your family, like that was mine for a very, very long time. Do that. Your mission could be your family, like that was mine for a very, very long time. And it's still to the largest respect is because my children are still dependent, right, but you got to be on mission for something that could be, and maybe it's not your job, maybe it is your family, maybe it is something that you do in your off time. Maybe it's a sport that you play Like, it can be something. But when you're passionate about something and maybe it's a sport that you play, like it can be something.
Speaker 1:But when you're passionate about something and you can convey or you display that confess that, that, that that passion to somebody that is sexy as hell, for for women, they're like, wow, this man is really passionate about something. He's going to be passionate with me. And then when you bring, let me I'll just finish, I'll wrap it up. I, I know we, we get both. We both get really excited about when we, when we talk about this stuff, because, you know, when you experience it, it's so exciting and it's so fun with, with the feminine presence around. But then they start, they start they start relating to that and then they know when you're with them and then they have your undivided attention. You're going to be passionate with them and man does that turn them.
Speaker 2:Yes, absolutely. It turns them on and it's and you're bringing to it a new curiosity, new discoveries, and basically you're bringing novelty because you went out on mission and broke through new barriers. You're bringing noveltiesties, new treasures that were on the other sides of those barriers. When you bring it to them, they are so excited and because there is something new, a new facet of you and life that they get to experience without having to go out and do it themselves. That's part of the treasure you bring back.
Speaker 2:And just to bring it full circle, dogs aren't doing this, dogs are not on mission. Well, some dogs I guess they're hunting dogs or herding dogs or whatever and it's interesting and we actually, among the six dogs I grew up with, one was an Australian herding dog, a Queensland blue heeler. That dog was always on mission and there were no cattle around. It tried to actually herd grandma by like nipping at her heels. It's kind of cute, but not cute at all. So that dog was like chasing the ball, was like their mission. Women, you know, don't actually want that from the dog. They don't want this dog that's on mission and needs to like chase the ball all day, every day in the park. It's kind of exhausting for them. They love a man, however, that is on mission and goes out and brings it back.
Speaker 2:And again, I just want to speak to the guys that get frustrated. Or I want to speak to the frustration in men that they have when they meet a woman that's in a deep relationship with a dog, that's a mom dog, realize that that animal is doing what it does by nature, and our nature as men extends well beyond what that animal is capable of. And when we step into our full effectiveness of masculinity, that dog's got its place. Everybody can be there, everybody can be happy. There's no need to be frustrated and angry about the situation. When you step in effectively to the situation, a lot I mean a woman is like oh, geez, yeah, you know what? I don't want this dog in this bed anymore either, because I've got this man in this bed. Well, give her like a two, you know a walking upright beast of a man that she doesn't want to share the bed with a dog anymore. Most guys aren't bringing that much to the table, though?
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly which. Then, if we're going to that much to the table, though? Yeah, exactly which? Then, if we're going to take it to the next level, is that that provider, protector, energy, right, that that a dog seemingly might, might, give them in in some regards to, like you? You mentioned fetching the ball. Okay, right, like, so that's a.
Speaker 2:That's a basic way in which they do it well, and the dog, you know, as a protector, that dog will bark at somebody at the door, you know. But that dog also will run out that door and chase someone down the street and you know it's kind of a dumb protector. You don't have an intelligent, you know man there who can really, you know, deal man there who can really, you know, deal with complex environments and really protect them. That dog knows how to bark and bite and chase. That's it. Men who are self-developed know how to protect and provide in way more complex ways. But we have to demonstrate that in our presence.
Speaker 2:Again to your point, this isn't a knight in shining armor. We're not trying to come in and explain all the ways that you can do it. This is stuff that you bring inside of you. It's part of your energy and she just feels it when you're there. And part of the fact that you know that you have it inside is that you're not intimidated by the dog. You're not in competition with him. If you feel threatened by her relationship with the dog, you know you're not in competition with him. You know. If you feel threatened by her relationship with the dog, hello, you have not reached upper masculinity as a man it's a little bit of a litmus test for you if you're getting triggered by the dog, yeah yeah, it's a, so it's a, it's a, it's a balance, right.
Speaker 1:Like Like you see these profiles that you mentioned, my dog's my best friend, or dog's my kid I love, or you're going to have to, my dog's going to have to, like you. But then also when you meet the dog, it's like okay, hi, nice dog. Like okay, you're not. And I've seen that, right, and I've seen that with guys and kids too. Like they're competing with the woman's. Like you are totally like, just stop, you're not ready to be in a relationship yet.
Speaker 1:If you've that insecure around what's your masculinity and again, this is understanding yourself so you can look at this. You can say, hey, I'm just not comfortable with the dynamic that she has. You can understand the dynamic. You don't have to be. And that's the sign of a confident man that knows his masculinity and where he stands and whether or not that woman is going to be a good fit for you in that relationship.
Speaker 1:It doesn't mean that you've got to prove yourself either. Let's make that point too. Like you got to prove yourself over the dog or the kids or anything else. You shouldn't have to do that. So that's also something pay attention to. Like that's not where you're going with this. You show up, you have the confidence, you know who you are, you're making your invitations, you're communicating effectively. And then, if you're making your invitations, you're communicating effectively. And then if you're getting the positive response right, you're always gauging. If you're getting the positive response, that means that that's good, you're doing something right. But it also means that she's healthy and she's able to react to that in her feminine as well. If you're not, then okay, maybe there needs to be a course correct, maybe there needs to be some communications. But if there has been communications and it's still not happening, then you might have your answer if this is going to be good or not good.
Speaker 2:Absolutely Dude. How does an hour go by, this fast man?
Speaker 1:I know Jesus, we could talk like for I know we could talk for like another two hours, which is the beautiful thing about the longevity of this podcast thing about the longevity of this podcast that you know everybody who's listening can tune in again next week and get some more pearls and listen to us.
Speaker 2:Just geek out like we do and, by the way, by the way, wherever it is that you're listening to this podcast, if you have not liked and subscribed, please do that. It really helps boost the ratings, it helps gets the. It helps us get the exposure that that this content deserves. Please like and subscribe.
Speaker 1:Yeah, do If you've found some value and share it. Sharing is the best form of some sort of referral because that means you found value in it. And if you send it to another guy and say, hey, you need to listen to this kind of funny, ridiculous episodes about dogs with these two knuckleheads that are correlating it to relational dynamics and the psychology of dating, that's going to be a huge, huge opportunity for somebody else to come into the fold.
Speaker 1:And if you are like Jude and you have drawn the line in the sand and says no way, no, how, never in my life will there be a dog in this bed. Send Jude an email.
Speaker 2:Flood that inbox and make him feel the love and the support and make him know that he's not alone in his extreme decisions of never having a dog in the bed. I actually I would say it's not 100%, but I would say I have a good dog. I actually, I would say I'm not.
Speaker 1:It's not a hundred percent, but I would say I have a strong, strong preference for no dogs in the bed, oh dude. Or like we haven't even talked about cats, like that wouldn't blow my fricking mind. Like yeah, that's the, that's an, that's a whole, that's a whole whole, nother one. So, all right, well, that's a, that's all the time we've got. This was, this was.
Speaker 2:Dallas. As always, my friend, how did the dads listening connect with you? You can find me at blackboxdatingcom. You can find the coaching program, all the details we do Wednesday night office hours. Monday night mastery series. There's a community of men. If you're looking for wingmen in the area, that's a great way to connect with them. Yeah, blackboxdatingcom. And Jude, please tell everybody what you do and how they can get more of it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we got to talk about the wingman stuff one episode too, because that's a fun one. Maybe we need to do some man on the street wingman stuff too. That'd be a little bit. That'd be fun to throw in there too. But yeah, fellas, check out thedivorcedadvocatecom.
Speaker 1:We just had last night a great session on navigating narcissism. So we've got all kinds of workshops and opportunities for you to tune in, whether it's co-parenting, dealing with exes or talking about some fun personality disorders that you might run into once in a while. So check that out at thedivorcedadvocatecom might run into once in a while. So check that out at thedivorcedadvocatecom. And please send us an email if you've got an experience about a dog or a relationship with a dog, your own relationship with the dog or a relationship with a woman with a dog or just a fun experience around that. The email for our podcast is dadsdatingafterdivorce at gmailcom, and I want to hear. We put it out there for the first date image last week. I want to hear, I want to hear some of these stories. We'll start sharing some of them.
Speaker 2:We also want to hear what you guys want to hear about. If there is a particular topic, if there's a particular question, if there's a particular pain point that you're dealing with particular topic, if there's a particular question, if there's a particular pain point that you're dealing with and you don't think that you've found adequate material and answers around it, please send in the email dadsdatingafterdivorce at gmailcom and we'll be happy to do an episode, maybe even give you a shout out when we start the episode.
Speaker 1:Absolutely All right, Dallas until next week. Until next week, dude, Take care Bye.
