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Dads Dating After Divorce
Dating after divorce isn’t what it used to be—especially when you’re a dad. The rules have changed, the world has changed, and now you’ve got kids in the mix. Join Dallas and Jude as they share real-world strategies and insights from their work with dads and men at BlackBoxDating.com and TheDivorcedDadvocate.com.
Dads Dating After Divorce
15 - Dating Younger: Fantasy or Fulfillment?
The dating world doesn't come with a rulebook, especially for those navigating it after divorce. In this candid conversation, Jude and Dallas tackle the recent controversy surrounding the Golden Bachelor's age preferences and what it reveals about the complex world of dating in midlife.
When 66-year-old Mel Owens stated he preferred to date women between 45-60, the backlash was immediate. But does having age preferences make someone shallow, or is it simply an honest acknowledgment of compatibility factors? The hosts explore how our dating preferences develop, why they matter, and when they might need examination.
For divorced dads, understanding the concept of the "sexual marketplace" can be eye-opening. Many men underestimate their value after divorce, not realizing that maturity, stability, and having your life in order can be powerfully attractive qualities. The key distinction emerges between preferences that lead to fulfillment versus those that merely satisfy short-term cravings.
What makes this conversation particularly valuable is the practical wisdom offered for those balancing dating with parenting responsibilities. Finding someone with compatible values and lifestyle is crucial, yet emotional connection remains the foundation of any meaningful relationship. Jude shares from personal experience how transformative post-divorce dating can be when approached with self-awareness and intention.
Whether you're newly divorced or years into single parenthood, this episode provides a framework for examining what you truly want in a relationship versus what you think you should want. The hosts offer complementary perspectives that acknowledge both the emotional journey and practical realities of finding connection after divorce.
Ready to approach dating with greater clarity and confidence? Connect with Dallas at blackboxdating.com or find divorce resources with Jude at thedivorcedadvocate.com and discover how to create the fulfilling relationships you deserve.
Hello and welcome to Dad's Dating After Divorce, the only podcast for dads navigating the wild, weird and, I guess, sometimes wonderful scene of dating in the 21st century. My name is Jude Sandoval. I am the founder of the Divorced Advocate and my co-host, Dallas Bluth, the dating and relationship coach of Black Box Dating Dallas, how are you doing today? Doing fabulous, Jude. How are you doing? I'm doing terrific as well.
Speaker 1:I am intrigued to get into and to hear your take on our topic today, which is around age and dating, and I'm prefacing this in and I got to say I think that I've found probably the only other person that is like less up on current events and kind of like pop culture than myself with you, which I really appreciate, and I think maybe it's just because I have teenage daughters that I've like have just a little advantage on you. So it works out in this context because it at least gives us some ability for you not to know exactly what I'm talking about and me bring topics that allow us to chat about or at least incorporate some pop reference cultures. Otherwise it'd just be two old guys talking about dating, which would be pretty boring, Did this one specifically come from your daughters?
Speaker 2:this topic.
Speaker 1:No, actually this one did not come from my daughters. This one came from me scrolling something somewhere at some time and it popped up. So what we're talking about is the newest iteration of the Bachelor is out and they're calling it the Golden Bachelor, and I just got to say off the bat I just do not like this show at all period. I never have the premise of it is ridiculous. You're not going to fall in quote-unquote love in 10 episodes or however many episodes. They do it and then they expect it, I guess, to propose and try to get married after and then they carry this on after. It's just a market. It's a whole big marketing BS thing. Anyway, so just to say that I don't necessarily follow this because I don't want everybody to be like Jesus. You lost all credibility.
Speaker 2:We just lost half our audience right there, right, exactly so just prefacing that guys.
Speaker 1:But what is interesting? So they have the golden bachelor. Golden is older, so he, the, the, the bachelors, and the bachelor and the and the ladies, I guess, are 60 plus or some age. This is where kind of the issue has come in. So he is 66 years old, I believe, and the bachelor's name is Mel Owens. And he's 66 years old and at some point previously, when they were doing some promos or something about it, they asked him what his preferred age range was and he just innocently and just matter of factly said 45 to 60. And they were like, oh no, you can't limit it only to 60. You're 66 years old. And he said, well, I'm just going to be cutting anybody over 60 because that's just not my age range. And so, as you can imagine, that struck a nerve, right. So we'll get into why it struck a nerve a little bit of background or just a little bit of groundwork on his background because I thought, okay, well, let me there's always more to the story to try to understand why somebody might have a preference or whatever.
Speaker 1:So I did a little research on Mel Owens. He's a former number one draft pick football player, so in the 1980s he was a number one draft pick. He played, I think, for the Rams for a while in the NFL, so very high performing athlete at some point in his life. And then he went and got a law degree after his NFL career was over and then started a successful law firm in California and has done that, I guess, for quite a while now.
Speaker 1:He was married at one point, so he is a divorced dad as a matter of fact. I think he has two boys and he was married for, I think, 23 years. So he had a long-term marriage, successful marriage, I would say, 23 years together. So you, you got to do something right to stay together for that period of time. But the interesting part of this is that his ex-wife is 19 years younger than him.
Speaker 1:So this was kind of already his thing, right, the preference and 20, almost 20 years difference Didn't get married until he was, I think, like 43, 44 years old. So that would have made his ex-wife somewhere around 23, 24, 25. And then they had two sons and they've raised two sons. They're, I guess, 18 or 20 or something like that now, and so now he's divorced, he's a golden bachelor, he's back in the dating game and I guess his divorce was only finalized sometime last year, so relatively new. So there's some correlations to the dad's listening as well. So let's just maybe start off first with what's your reaction to this when you just hear him say hey well, my age range is 45 to 60. He's 66. Now you know a little bit about his background.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Well, my first question is okay, he signed up for a show here that it sounds like it's designed for not just the bachelor being over 60, but, you know, the, the women that he's potentially falling in love with and getting married to by the end of the season. I mean, again, it's all just entertainment, that's all it is. I. I let it go with that. But I'm wondering, dude, you're signing up for a show and then you're shooting yourself in the foot right before it starts. Maybe if he'd been single for a while, you know, and there was a little bit of history out there, and then he signed up for the show, and that would maybe make more sense. But somebody didn't coach this guy right, pun intended.
Speaker 2:They did not prepare him for well, I guess what first season, I don't know we're going to start making some really bad parallels here. But, like I guess what First season, I don't know, we're going to start making some really bad parallels here. But first season draft pick for a senior dating, I'm pretty sure. When I looked at some of the details up briefly, it looks like all the women I think were over 60 for the show. I would like to know what the context was for the podcast. Were they asking him specifically in the show? I would like to know what the context was for the podcast. Were they asking him specifically in the show? When he says he disqualifies people over 60? Is he talking about in his private dating life or is he talking about for the sake of the show?
Speaker 1:So for the sake of the show he said. He simply said and I think the context where this conversation was happening is they were, they were talking about, he was talking about how we got picked, et cetera. And then they were at, they were asking about what the producers asked him, and he said they asked age ranges. But then he made the comment I am going to, I am going to, I'm going to rule out anybody over 60 because I and so that what he added onto that then also was I don't want to deal with anybody with hip replacements or health issues or stuff like that, right? So then he not only ruled out people, but then he also kind of like exacerbated the situation a little bit. And look, I actually I'm not getting on him about this my, my take. Well, I'll give you my take after I give you, if you give, give our take. But so that's why, that's kind of why he said it, that's kind of the context in which he said it.
Speaker 2:So yeah, I mean, I feel like we're blending together reality and television here. I don't. I think he's speaking from the heart about what he truly prefers and again, I don't think he's prepping himself, I don't think he's remembering that there's going to be a show and that what he says is going to have an impact on the show. I just don't think he was prepared, I don't think he was coached right for what to expect. I mean, to me it sounds like his understanding of the show and the way that the show runs are very different. So for me I just sort of laugh about it. And who knows, maybe this was even designed, you know, to be something to boost ratings, to grab more attention, to create a little bit of sizzle for the season before it comes out. I mean, that might also be the case.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean that's as far as the show goes.
Speaker 2:I mean as far as a 66-year-old man who was married for 23 years, single, and then wants to date women that are anywhere from like. What about 20, 25?
Speaker 1:to five years younger than him. No, no, no, yeah, yeah, yeah. So he said 45 to 60. Oh, 45.
Speaker 2:Okay yeah, so 20 to five years younger than him. I mean, that's a different story in your own personal dating life.
Speaker 1:Yeah, right. So let's talk about that. Because when I heard it I was like, okay, well, no big deal, there was nothing that set me off as a guy and actually that kind of range seems to be kind of where I'm comfortable with, also in my dating life, not to say that I wouldn't date somebody my age or date somebody older than me. I have in fact done that but I have a range and it's a preference. I have legitimate reasons behind the preference. So for me I was just like, oh well, he's just being honest.
Speaker 1:And if they were picking him to be honest and then they wanted him to actually find somebody that he was comfortable with, and well, why wouldn't they then do that? Because then they were like, oh well, you've got to apologize and now you know we're going to find. And then they started with, oh, we're going to find beautiful women, you don't have to worry, they're going to be great and they're going to be so it okay. Well, why are you trying to then just maneuver and fit something in that is, you know, under all these false kind of like pretenses and guises and setups, right, it's just, that's his preference, that's what he's going to be comfortable with, that's maybe, maybe there's, I don't know, maybe there's a a way in which he relates and I and I was going to get to this a little bit later, but maybe he relates better and and that could to get to this a little bit later, but maybe he relates better.
Speaker 2:And that could just be a personality, right? Yeah? Yeah, I think the word you're using there is the right word to use it's preference. Everyone has their preference. They have body types that they prefer. They have personalities that they prefer. They have relative age ranges to themselves that they prefer. They have professions they prefer. None of these are hard and fast rules, but we all have preferences and we have to let people have them.
Speaker 2:To attack someone's preferences really is trying to impose on somebody else what they should like, what they should be attracted to. That's not how this works, and you're fighting people's nature by trying to shame them or try to influence what they're drawn to. You don't want to do that. I mean, if you want them to be drawn to you, if you're outside of somebody's age range and you're hoping that they're going to be drawn to you anyways, there's nothing that stops you from trying to be effective in attracting them. But to attack someone's preferences, that's just going to cause them to close up, lock up further and not be interested.
Speaker 2:So you have to accept your preferences and, to your point, you want to be honest with yourself about what your preferences are. You don't want to hide them. You don't want to wonder oh well, this is wrong if I do this or I do that. That doesn't mean we have to publicly tell television and the world what our preferences are. But I think we should be honest with ourselves and honest with the people that we meet that are asking about it. This is where I am, this is what I like, this is what I'm into. Preferences are not to be judged. I mean, it's what we like and there's something out there for everybody. There really is.
Speaker 1:Right, well, and so what I took exception to here was then it became well, you're insulting, you're insulting women, your age, it's like no, not really. But because there is a legit look, there's a legitimate concern with women in their mid to late 60s with health issues, and that includes hip replacements. And that's men too, right. So that's both. As we age, our bodies wear out, and that is something. But there are some of us that have a much different lifestyle, have a much different fitness level. Like I've got a friend in his mid-60s literally can out-hike me, outrun everything. I hiked a 14er with him this summer. He's like way, way more fit than I am in his mid-60s, right, he's got a much younger girlfriend because his lifestyle is that way.
Speaker 1:Because somebody his age, a woman his age unless there's exceptions, right, but the majority cannot just literally I can't keep up with him. I'm a male younger than him, a woman his age just will never keep up with him. And we've never talked about this, like there's never been a conversation. I just like I recognize it and I see that in him and know that the same way I feel as well, because there is like I'd like to be really, really active and physically fit and being out there, and that is not everybody, and that tends to be a younger mindset, if you will. And so what do you have to say about that younger mindset? And again, let me just put that, let's put a caveat Like there can be older women that do have that same physical desire and physical lifestyle and healthy lifestyle or whatever it is. So, but it seems, at least in my estimation okay, this might be where I'm going to get control here. It seems that it's a minority rather than a majority.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I've heard a lot of. To me it makes sense, and I think it's a question of compatibility. Again, coming back to it, your preferences are your preferences. You don't have to explain it, you just have to own it. As far as reasons for your preferences, if there are good reasons, that's awesome. There doesn't have to be.
Speaker 2:If you have a very active lifestyle and the woman that you're dating or, for women, the man that you're dating if they don't meet your lifestyle because you're 66 and you are super fit and you're out there doing things and, seriously, you're just smoking other people that are your age it makes sense for you to date somebody outside of your age range, and that's a practical reason that comes into play. I've heard a lot of women voice the exact same concerns about dating somebody that is their age or older. Lots of women that I've met in their 50s and 60s, even, I think, sometimes in their 70s, they will share with me that they want to date a younger man. They want to date a man that's 10 or 15 years younger than them, and they're stating the same reasons that you are, which is well, not that you are, but the same reason that Mel brought up, which is the health issues. People. There are going to be health issues as we get older for everybody.
Speaker 2:When we're talking about Mel, he's I don't know if you I mean he's not a celebrity, but he's definitely upper class wealthy. I'm guessing he ran a law firm for a long time. He was a number one draft pick for the NFL. I mean, was a number one draft pick for the NFL. I mean he's bringing a certain level of status to the table, and so when he says, yeah, I want to date somebody that's 15, 20 years younger than me, or only five years younger than him, we have to realize there's a marketplace here. There are preferences that we all have. But then what do you bring into the table? You know, financially, physically, socially all these elements come into play and we have to sort it out.
Speaker 2:The thing that I find a problem is when well, two things. One is when people are setting saying this is what I deserve, this is what I'm entitled to, and they're not really bringing enough to the table to really to really be able to earn that. It's like, well, when I meet a guy that wants to date a woman that's 20 years younger than him and he's super out of shape, he doesn't have his finances in place, there's a bunch of things to see. I'm asking him if you were this woman, are you the guy that she would pick? Does this feel like a natural match in the marketplace?
Speaker 2:If you just take a step back, I understand it's what you want and I'm not even saying you can't get it. But you have to take a step back and pull yourself out of your own selfish desires and say does this line up and make sense? Yeah, that's, I think. Where a lot of people get hung up is they get attached to what their preferences are and their desires and they're not honest with themselves about how they line up in the overall marketplace.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, yeah, and then we get the mob out there, that is. Then there is this mob mentality of, well, you can't say that because that's disrespectful, like what else, it's not. It is absolutely positively not at least in my estimation to be able to talk about your preferences, of what you want, and that's perfectly, perfectly fine. And let's talk a little bit about. You brought up the sexual marketplace, right, there is such a thing and there is such a thing as your sexual market value and that varies throughout your life. That varies differently throughout your life for men and differently for women. And so if you don't know that I think this is where you get the people going oh, he can't do that, he can't. But if you do know and understand that, then you're like well, yeah, duh, I mean, that makes sense really. He was already married and I'm not surprised to see that he was already married to somebody 20 years younger for 23 years, and she had children with him, etc. That makes perfect sense to me now that he said that, because he's actually already experienced his. He's already, he's already established himself his sexual market value in the sexual marketplace one. So he knows what that is.
Speaker 1:Now what I'm disappointed is he came groveling back, probably because he had this still in order to stay on the show. He probably had to say I'm so sorry, and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah and all that crap. If he was honest, he would have just said look, this is my sexual market value on the sexual market in the sexual marketplace. This is what I want, let's go with it. If you don't want to, then you know we'll. We'll not do the show, but he didn't, so but whatever. So let's, let's define first sexual, the sexual markets, and then what like sexual market values are, and then how those are different with men and women.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm not sure that I'm really qualified to define what the sexual marketplace is Basically. I think it's. I think it's pretty. I think it's pretty clear that some people okay, well, okay, I can talk about the dating app scene. That for sure it's a it's a weird market. But in in the online dating apps, I believe it's something like three to 5% of the men get something like over 90% of the messaging and dates and sex with the women. So there are a few men bubbling up to the top. They get most of the attention there and that is a particular type of sexual marketplace. When you broaden that out to real life, you know, in real life it flattens out a little bit, but not all that much. There tend to be certain people that are just they're more attractive and, as a result, they get more choices, they get more options.
Speaker 2:What is attractive in a man and what is attractive in a woman is statistically very clearly established. Youth in women is very attractive. Youth in men has some attraction. But there are other elements that make a man attractive, such as his being financially established in life, his wealth. You just don't have that when you're young, unless you were born in a wealthy family and you're just going to be expecting an inheritance. You've got to build it and that just takes time. Generally speaking, a woman being wealthy is not nearly as attractive. It doesn't weigh as heavily in men's attraction to women as a man's financial situation is in attracting women to him.
Speaker 2:On, as the decades move past, you know in your 20s, women have a lot more power in the sexual marketplace because of their youth and because historically anyway you know, they tend to be more fit and in shape. Personally, I don't see that trend necessarily holding true these days. I'm quite amazed to actually see that it's not that someone is necessarily, you know, a woman is necessarily fit and in shape when they're in their 20s and then as they get older, you know that all shifts. I'm finding that it's kind of independent at this point and so for me some of the traditional elements of why youthful women are so sexy to men it's falling off a little bit because, well, because we're not as in shape as we used to be as a society. So being in shape seems to be independent of age at this point. So yeah, and as a woman gets older, the physical beauty fades and you can do things like plastic surgery, you can do other things, but the physical beauty again, on average, is just not going to be the same as it was when you were younger.
Speaker 2:The people that are getting mad about this, the people that are yelling about it I think they're yelling about it because they're angry that it shouldn't be this way. I think they're angry about it on principle. They're saying you can't say that. Well, I mean, that's trying to deny what is very statistically clearly proven that men are attracted to younger women. One of the early episodes you brought up dataclysm, and I don't remember what the exact chart was, but there was this sort of like cliffhanger moment of swiping on women where it was, I think, like 22 or 23. Like 22 or 23. After that, suddenly men just stopped swiping right. There was like a drop-off where the women swiping to men it was within a relative age range to themselves. Surprisingly, it still didn't match their stated preferences.
Speaker 2:So to be clear a stated preference is what you say you want and what you say you like. And then your what do they call it? Your real preferences, or I forgot what the complimentary term is. But your actual preferences that you show in your behavior ended up not being at all what the women said, that their stated preferences were.
Speaker 2:So I don't know when I hear people getting angry about these sorts of things. I'm like you're angry about something that is not going to change anytime soon and getting angry about it is only going to exacerbate. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Well so, and so, for me, the sexual market is just the innate biological way we are designed to be attracted to each other, and so, then, your sexual market value is based upon what those traits are that you would exhibit in that market that will attract a mate to you. And so you talked about the differences in what is attractive for a woman to a man and for what a man is to a woman, and you talked about the. Dataclysm is just the one of the latest and many of the different, whatever statistics or studies or whatever that what you're referencing is is they. They polled men to find where they said, where they thought the the most attractive women were, and it was literally a straight up and down line. At like that, 22 or 21, 20, like every, the most attractive women to men are that age, and that is just by design, like that's not, it's not, you know, and that doesn't mean I think we should add that that doesn't mean that we're all going looking to dating, dating them right, because now we have a higher level of consciousness, we need to make decisions based upon our lives. All kinds of other things go in that, but when we're looking at it from just a biological perspective.
Speaker 1:That is what we are wired to look at, find attractive and be drawn to, and so that is not a bad thing.
Speaker 1:This is this, this whole mindset that that some have in our society of wanting to, to, to deny these just ways in which men and women are wired differently, and it's, and when we start getting into that, the problem is that then you start causing problems when you want to try to, to, to, to change that. It's not. You know, working within that is better than trying to change somebody's mindset or even, like in this case, guilt somebody around around what is just a natural way, because we don't do it the other, the other way. Right, there's you talked about, there's things that women look at that are attractive to men. So there isn't that up and down attractive line for women at 21 or 22, because 21 and 22 are men don't provide the same, the ability to protect, the ability to provide. You know, some of these other things that are natural, whether women know it or not, are just naturally things that they look at in men, that make them, that draw them towards them.
Speaker 2:Right. Well, men do like get upset about this, but we get upset about it for the most part with other men. You know the whole manosphere is based on. It's unfair what women are asking for from men. So men do do this, we. Just we do it very differently. We don't, we don't go.
Speaker 2:You don't see men showing up on talk shows accusing women of being very unfair, like we didn't. We don't do it that way. Instead, we're we're busy away on our keyboards in our mother's basements, you know, complaining about it in a whole different. Yeah, some of us, I mean, but what I'm saying is the men that are complaining about it. That tends to be the way that they do it. They they tend to be. We tend to get angry and frustrated in in a, in a, in a private setting. You know that, and we tend to, like, you know, bitch about it with other dudes like that, and you know women do that also. But we don't, we don't bring it out to the stage and start calling out women and, you know, cancel culture in them or whatever, because, you know, because of their preferences, we just get frustrated and well, and then we, and then we accused that the whole game is rigged against us Again. I'm not one of those guys, but there are a lot of guys that that's where the frustration and anger kick in.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, that's interesting because at least the guys that I come in contact with, there's more there feels like there's more of a mentality of what, well, then, go fix it Right, because you got it. And that's kind of a male mindset too. So, which, which can be healthy, I think, is good. So, are you not? And you mentioned some of them and, and unfortunately these are the things are you in a good financial place? Are you good mentally, emotionally, like? Are you fit? Have you taken care of yourself? Are you going to be somebody that somebody's going to have to be caring for and basically taking care of another child for the rest of your life? So are these things?
Speaker 1:And if they're not, at least the guys that I come in contact with, it's like well, go fix it Now. Lots of times when we get that in our head, we think things like oh, I got to go make more money, I got to become rich, this is the only thing that I can do, and that's a false narrative. And again, anything that becomes extreme then becomes unhealthy, right, toxic, if you will. I hate what, I hate that word, but anything that becomes too much can become toxic in your body, in your life, whatever it is.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think what you're touching on there is the fact that there is a sexual marketplace, but we have maneuverability within the sexual marketplace. And you're totally right. The type of guy that I'm describing is essentially not much of a man. He's immature, he's blaming others, he's not taking responsibility for his own lot in life and he's yelling and pointing the finger outwardly rather than reflecting inwardly to find out what are the levers and bootstraps that he has at his disposal that can change his reality. And when a guy starts to engage with those elements, he changes his marketability in the sexual marketplace. He makes himself more desirable. And the interesting thing is, we tend to look at these marketplaces as a way for us to tell us how we're doing inside. But there is no meter. We can't go to the doctor and you measure your height and then you measure your sexual marketplace marketability. We can't do that. There's no such instrument.
Speaker 1:Well, you can in some sense by the success that you're having in it, right If you're attracting who it is that you're wanting. So that is a tool by which you can measure yourself.
Speaker 2:Yes, you can. It's hard to control for just sort of good luck, randomness, other elements in your life. I was talking about just sort of knowing that I'm going up. What I was leading to is there is a much more subtle indicator, though on the inside. When feel more relaxed, when you feel more confident, when you make fewer excuses and really when you stop explaining yourself and you're simply coming back to the original point, stating what your preferences are and saying this is what I like and this is what I'm bringing to the table in exchange for them, and you start finding women that that that say yes to that, then you know that you're increasing your value in the sexual marketplace.
Speaker 2:But the real indicator is essentially your state inside of yourself. Are you feeling calm? Are you feeling confident? Are you feeling collected? Does your life make sense to you? That is, a man that has a higher value in the sexual marketplace? The guys that start out and they're complaining and they're pointing the finger and they're blaming and they're saying this is never going to happen. This isn't fair. Those feelings inside of yourself, without having to look at how women respond to you, those feelings in yourself are the best, most reliable indicator of what your value is, in a very fundamental sense, in the sexual marketplace.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and so that's a great point. To bring it back to divorce and going through a divorce, because lots of times our whatever you want to call it our self-esteem, our ego or whatever takes a hit through that Right, because this was a huge, huge thing that's happened. And, guys, listen, you're going to just hear this theme over and over with Dallas and I about talking about finding out where you're at, doing a self-assessment, understanding how you're feeling about things and about yourself, and then what to do in going forward about things and about yourself, and then what to go for. What to do in going forward Like, like for for, for instance, somebody could have one of these preferences because they're, they might be, and so let's take it.
Speaker 1:Let's let's take it to the unhealthy part we were, we were talking about, which is a dad's divorcing, he's in, he's out there dating again and he's got this preference. But this preference is maybe because he wants to relive his youth, right, because he's, you know, he's just feeling bad about having got out of the marriage or whatever, or, or, or some other healthy dynamic that he's he's looking to to get into. That's not, that's not a healthy preference. So let's talk about these preferences in the context of really doing the self-auditing, understanding who you are, what you're doing, what your situation is now and how to develop that preference.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that is definitely a deep topic in how you are going to pull apart your preferences and find out which ones are healthy and which ones are not. Let me start by saying this isn't like a one and done thing. This is something you have to listen to yourself on an ongoing basis. And, yeah, let's see where would we start with that no-transcript girl, like you know, probably not even out of college yet Young woman, but pretty young. You have to ask yourself am I attracted to that woman because I feel like I'm going to have an amazing experience? I'm going to. She's actually going to make me happy in my life. When I imagine bringing her into my you know, into my post-divorce family situation, I see this working out really well.
Speaker 2:Be honest with yourself. Do you really see a healthy, happy package coming out of that? Or is this actually just craving and craving? One of the ways of looking at it is an attachment to something that's pleasurable. There's no doubt that a young, early 20-year-old girl is attractive and enjoyable. There's no doubt about that. But if you're only pursuing something that is kind of like drinking alcohol, it can be really fun in the evening. But is that necessarily an ongoing way to create happiness in your life? Not really. It could be something that you're your life Not really you know. It could be something that you're simply craving. You have to ask yourself is this desire that I have and here you got to? You got to kind of like split it out into two buckets. Is this desire a craving type of desire? Or is this desire part of a healthy going to make my whole life happy and balanced kind of desire?
Speaker 1:Right, well, and that's a good point, because that's not again, that's not bad. It's not bad as long as you understand the, the origin of of what it is and why you are pursuing this rights and, and especially, if you're upfront and honest. I mean, I've I've dated women who are like I just got out of divorce and I'm just looking for fun, right, like that craving that you're talking about, that's it. But they're up front and I've met guys too, and when I talk to other guys they understand where you're at and what you want and why that is. So that's not necessarily a bad thing If dads are listening and like, yeah, I just, I would like to go have some fun with somebody that's younger with me.
Speaker 1:Just be upfront about that and understand that that's what you are pursuing, and the other person understand that that's what you're pursuing as well. That's, I think when, when you don't do that, then then things, then all those those, those people that are complaining about stuff, and then all those people that are complaining about stuff talk about power imbalances and stuff like that, because then if you're not being upfront and you're not being honest about stuff, then that can create stuff like that with somebody that's younger. So if you're doing that, that's fine You're talking about.
Speaker 2:when you mentioned a power imbalance. To say that a young woman in early 20s doesn't have a lot of power over an older man, you're fooling yourself. There's plenty of power that she has. It's a question of whether or not she's wielding it, you know and that kind of power dynamic.
Speaker 2:I mean, there is a place for it, and so I have very few rules that I adhere to strictly when it comes to my coaching. One of them is honesty. You need to be honest. If you're not going to be honest, I don't want to work with you. It's that simple. Is it always easy to be honest? No, are you always being honest with yourself? Hell, no, that one's very hard to do. But I have a basic value of you do need to be honest and, to the degree that it feels appropriate in getting involved with somebody, you want to be transparent with them about what your intentions are. So let me also echo one other thing.
Speaker 2:You said somebody getting out of a divorce. You mentioned a woman that you've, women that you've dated that are getting out of divorce and they're saying they're not looking for a relationship, they just want to have fun. That's not necessarily craving. If they have been sexually repressed during their marriage, if they never got to enjoy that part of their life, part of them feeling healthy and imbalanced might simply be to blow out some of the stops and for them to realize, actually, no, sex is healthy. Maybe they were in a very religious marriage and sex was really tied up into weird places and you know, and it felt very just just loaded with all kinds of morality and rights and wrongs and consequences and you know, and like, beliefs in God start to come into play. And those are, those are things that you know.
Speaker 2:If a person has a divorce or you know, just at a certain point in life, says, you know what? There are these elements in my own behavior, in my own past, that are limiting me. I want to remove them and I'm going to have some fun removing them. At the same time. I wouldn't call that craving. I would call that actually very intentionally moving towards what it is that you want to experience in life. Again, it could be.
Speaker 1:I mean that so that you know, coming so, coming from a religious perspective, like that could be, depending on the circumstances, depending on their belief system. Again, that goes back to what we talked about knowing what it is that you want, what your experience was, why you want something different, et cetera.
Speaker 1:There could, that could be true, what you're saying, that could, it could just be a craving too right, like especially in and so and I want to say that because I don't want to, I don't want my, I don't want the, the, the, the Christian or the religious people that are listening about this feel like we're criticizing a religious belief around sex or whatnot.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I just wanted to clarify that. I know that's not what you meant, but I just want to clarify that because there is a context depending on what your value is and how you can date that same way without having sex, and we're not always talking about having sex here. You know the desire and the desires we talk about is to have a relationship, be in relation with somebody that's not at the bottom line isn't always to have sex with them, right, like. So let's just be clear, clear about that. We do talk about sex a lot, and sex is an important part of relationships in our world, et cetera. But I just want to clarify that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, let me. Let me also clarify another aspect of craving. Craving tends to be very short term based. I'm not really worried how I'm going to feel tomorrow. I'm not really worried how this person is going to feel tomorrow. I'm just interested in the pleasure of the moment or getting whatever needs satisfied, my ego satisfied, whatever it is that tends to be craving. When something is not craving, it's because we see ourselves moving into a happier, more well-adjusted, more well-balanced life. Now, what that means in a religious context not in a religious context that's for each person to sort out individually for themselves. But the honesty that I was trying to talk about with yourself is you have to ask yourself is this a short-term just hit of something enjoyable? Or are these steps along the path moving to where it is that I want to go, where I'm in alignment with myself?
Speaker 1:Right, yeah, I think your definition of craving clears that up, because it's kind of like a craving when you're maybe eating something or doing something, like it's an you're not thinking through, you haven't done what we're subscribing to, which is take the time, understand where you're at, what it is that you want, why you're, why you're doing that, right and and and. Then be honest with that. A craving is just your bam, you're just. You know you're following your emotions and and and your whatever, just yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I, I would say when it comes to never advisable, right, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, cravings don't take you anywhere intentional, and when you, when you move haphazardly through life, you don't end up by accident where you want to be. It usually takes a lot more intentionality to get there. I want to bring it back to the question of analyzing your preferences that you have. You want to be honest with yourself about what the preferences are, and then you want to examine them and ask them are these preferences that are serving me? Are these preferences that are leading me to a life that I'm really going to be fulfilled and enjoying?
Speaker 2:This episode is largely about age preferences. Well, you have to ask yourself again if I'm a divorced man in my early middle age, or wherever you are, and I'm dating a woman that is really closer to my kid's age than to my own age, you have to ask yourself how is that going to play out later in life? And if it plays out in a way that somehow makes sense for you and you see it being happy, fine. The important thing is that you ask that question and you look at your preferences and ask yourself are these life-giving, nurturing, healthy preferences, or are these preferences more short-sighted and instant gratification and pleasure-based? That's the dividing principle that I use when we're doing this type of analysis work.
Speaker 1:So when you are working with clients, is there a process? Because we talked a few weeks ago about the materialist and they have a whole scene where they just show both sides saying, well, this is what I wanted. Some of them are some of those stereotypes, some of them are just kind of ridiculous and at one point she's like you're not a catch and then she catches herself and is like because you're not a fish, she's trying to cover herself, but she's just being honest about that. So when you're working with clients, what so? How do you? How do you do that? And the second part of this and I don't know, maybe you don't want to answer is when they're being completely unrealistic, how do you bring them back to? You know, back to?
Speaker 2:reality? The answer to both of those questions is actually the same. It's a matter of shifting from a mental process what they think they want into an emotional process where they listen to what they want. Okay, what does that mean? So most of the men that I work with have a firm picture in their mind of what they want and they're convinced of it. They have strong thoughts around it and then, at the same time, simultaneously, they're experiencing emotions that they don't like of powerlessness, frustration, loneliness, a whole gamut of emotions.
Speaker 2:And the interesting thing is and it takes time for us to shift out of the conviction of the mind into listening to the heart and when the guys get more relaxed and they start sharing their feelings, what they're actually after for the most part is a feeling that they want to have when they're with a woman. And suddenly, when they're honest with themselves about that the strong preferences of age and body type and what she does for a living and all of that they just start to loosen up a whole lot automatically when they start to imagine how they actually feel. And then, when the clients actually start meeting women and they start experiencing those emotions, they realize oh, you know, these preferences that I had in my mind. They were a certain guiding principle, but really, when it comes down to the experience of meeting somebody, there's an emotional side and the heart speaks differently than the head does.
Speaker 1:Okay, so I'm going to put you on the spot a little bit here, because that sounds great, right, exactly what I desire. I think any guy that I've talked to that's honest desires. How do you then reconcile that when you're a dad and you're dating and there are all kinds of other real specific things that you've like you've you've got to hit, somebody's got to be available in order to get to that point, yeah, that might mean that they can't have kids because they're not available or or they've got to or or they got to be. You know, whatever right like there's got to be some real specific things that have to happen in order for you to actually have a relationship that you, that just might not happen.
Speaker 2:Right. Well, I mean there's certain logistical things like how much a woman is is available, and I run into this a lot with clients. They talk about particularly single moms, how unavailable they are a lot of the time, how they there's just not a lot of time for them to spend with clients. They talk about particularly single moms how unavailable they are a lot of the time, how there's just not a lot of time for them to spend with them. Well, that's part of the experience and the package you're having with them.
Speaker 2:If you're not satisfied, if you're not getting enough connection, then you have to be honest and saying the preference of a woman that has children 100% of the time in my experience isn't really going to work. There's nothing wrong with stating that preference and really I think what you're hinting at actually is the right place to get to is when your preferences are in alignment with the feeling that you want to have. What I was alluding to before was certain guys have certain preferences that are, again, kind of craving based and they're not. They're not listening to the experience that's going to happen. Are they going to feel fulfilled when they're the rest of the time and they're not in bed with this woman, how fulfilled are they? And and the way that you do that is listening to the emotions, so that the real desires, the deeper desires, can come out. That's what is buried in those emotions are the deeper desires that guys really want and have never really had.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So, dallas, for me it seems like it's got to be a little bit of both. Right, because you could have that terrific connection with somebody, but logistically it's just not going to happen. And I actually just had that experience recently where I went out, somebody had a great connection, but really the design of our lives and I had to say, look, this is long-term, this is just not going to work out, because logistically there's not going to be as much of a cool connection we had and I enjoyed conversation and everything else. It's just not going to happen. So I feel like we need to be realistic about that and it's a hard, hard balance, I would say for dads. I know that. It's been my experience. It's been really hard and to some extent I've had to just rule out not completely rule out, but just change my, my preferences, right, because what I might prefer it's just it's just not going to happen. As much as I'd like to have that connection with that, that that perfect, ideal situation that I want, it's just not going to happen because of circumstances.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's entirely true. Practical life comes into place and yeah, and unfortunately, some of the statements are we're in different places in our lives, we're looking for different things, even though you have that amazing connect with somebody. Yeah, that is very unfortunate when it happens, and it happens all the time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, well, and and and. So when I? What I would like to encourage the listeners is everything that you're saying, I, I, I, a hundred percent agree, right, what you're the feeling, that you want to have the connection, all of that, but don't discount the practicality and don't, don't, don't just stop at what that feeling is, because you could, like I've and and I've done this and I've wasted a lot of time doing this, in having a connection, doing it, but then just finding out that, well, the circumstances are not going to allow us to really move past this great feeling we have and I'm sorry, guys, just love does not conquer all. It's a terrible, terrible saying it doesn't work.
Speaker 1:There's stuff that you have to think about, there's practicalities you have to think about, and now that you are a single dad and you have kids and that responsibility, it's a whole, whole different game. So think a little bit further, past just the feeling. It's not bad to have the feeling, make those connections, do that, which is one of the great things that you do. Dallas always brings me back to that and talking about how to do that. But I want to make sure that we don't get ourselves into situations that are just going to be heartbreaking and or unfulfilling because of the greater picture.
Speaker 2:Does that make sense? Absolutely, and I agree, and listening to your feelings will bring to light some of those practical necessities that you need, such as what is her availability I'm going to throw in there, because we're talking about dating younger women what is her maturity level? Is she going to be able to understand and support you in where you are in your life? Will some young women be able to do that? Yes, will most of them be able to do that? Probably not. Probably not. About what they're looking for and what that picture is.
Speaker 2:When we begin to listen to the emotions, what the real priorities are for them to experience in a connection with a woman, those start to surface. Once those surface, then we start to revise the preferences and we become more conscious of what the actual preferences that a man has, that one of the clients has, really are. Okay, so what you're looking for is this type of a connection. Well, maybe we should adjust some of your stated preferences to align itself better with the experience that, deep down emotionally, you have wanted for your whole damn life and never gotten Right.
Speaker 1:That's sort of the full process that we go through in the analysis, and I hope that does resonate with what you're talking about, and we're attracted to that right, just as a male species. But when we're doing the process that you just described, which is your feelings about, what is that connection that you have with them? Is this going to be fulfilling the time? Okay, maybe they have the time to accept the connection, right, what you're going to be talking about Seinfeld reruns and she's going to be talking about TikTok, right? Like you know, that's going to be difficult and challenging, and so you refine that up to you know, to a while you're you're, you're sacrificing one to some extent, you're gaining another right and so, again, tuning into those feelings, like you you described, can help to understand those practicalities of what your life is and how you can fit in Fit in is not the best word how you can attract what it is that you want that's going to work perfectly in your situation. Does that make sense?
Speaker 2:It does. Yeah, and I think when we talk about sort of a sexual marketplace and what you're bringing to the table, when we listen to the deeper desires that we have and the experience that we want to have, we tend to align ourselves into the sexual marketplace in a more accurate place. We tend to attract the people that are going to give us what we're looking for, because we're now situating ourselves where we actually are in that marketplace. But it's an introspective process to get there and it can be kind of disappointing.
Speaker 2:It's like I can't have everything in all the different ways all at once in your life. That's true. However, when you allow yourself to follow the alignment of what's actually giving you the most life-giving connection with a woman that you can, you'd be amazed how quickly you start to let go of some of these other things and go yeah, I mean it'd be nice if she was 22, but she's not. Yeah, I mean it'd be nice if she was 22, but she's not. But that is replaced with a type of connection, chemistry, sensuality, intimacy, that really you're in it when you're experiencing it and you give up the I don't know, sort of the pouty preference, the poutiness around the preferences that you don't get to have anymore Right so?
Speaker 1:you brought something up that I find interesting, which is placing yourself on that spectrum in the marketplace. I feel like oftentimes dads devalue themselves in in in the marketplace quite a bit and and I think that happens because of the experience and what they've gone through, etc. And and I say that because then I I've been doing this work long enough to to know guys then after a while, post-divorce, back in the dating scene then their mindset shifts and they change that mindset and they start to see and feel the value that they have in that. I think that's another point I'd like to make with the guys too. Where you're at now thinking about this probably is going to change in six months and then in a year or two years, about what, what's your, what's your value is in this, in this marketplace. And so just be, have some grace with yourself, find somebody like Dallas and do the work, because, man Dallas, you could have like you, dallas, you could have taken years of my dating life, if you will, and helping me too, right, because here's the thing you either.
Speaker 1:Find somebody like Dallas that can help you sort through all this, because, okay, we talked for an hour here and I don't know that we didn't give you a linear path, like give you like a linear path to like how to do that. There's so much that goes into it and there's so many variables that go into it. And so finding somebody like Dallas and Dallas hasn't paid me to do this promotion is because it helps you to sort through this stuff and look at this stuff and then refine this stuff. It's kind of like you know you can, you can change your own breaks, but is it going to? Is it going to take you three, four hours to do and figure out or your oil change or whatever, or is it going to? Can you take it to Jiffy Lube or the break place or whatever and get it done in an hour? You pay more, like it just makes sense to to have somebody to coach you through this stuff, and then it's going to take the years.
Speaker 1:Like I said, you would have taken years off my dating life had I talked to you early on. We try not to get into personal anecdotes here, but I do probably more than you do, but I did date the really young like right out of the bat first, like first off the bat, craving right, like that's. You know, stupid. Like I look back at it now you know, and I look back on what I thought my, my market value was, it's completely different now. So so find somebody like dallas, or find dallas, just all of you call Dallas tomorrow and get signed up at blackboxdatingcom and just work through that and understand that, because it's just going to make things so much smoother, so much easier, so much more fulfilling, so much more loving. There's so much that positive that can come out of it.
Speaker 2:it Dude, thank you. I really appreciate your vote of confidence and for telling the guys that there is a faster, easier way to get through this. I really do, and that is really what it comes down to. It's taking larger strides and moving quicker across the game board to where it is that you want to be. I want to also echo what you said here about the fact that divorced dads struggle with confidence and probably see themselves as having lower value in the sexual marketplace. It's not true. It depends a little bit on the age range that you're in, but I would say probably if you're over the age of 40, I don't believe that having kids in itself is going to. It lowers your value at all in the sexual marketplace. Now there's a subtle difference. It doesn't lower your mark, your your value If you are making it clear that your children and your responsibilities as a father are not going to be put on the woman that you are dating, if you can show that you are, you have all of this in place and that you are protecting her from it and that she's not going to be involved with it at all until both of you feel that it's appropriate, as long as you're doing that and you have time available for dating.
Speaker 2:In a lot of ways, single dads bring a certain level of maturity, a certain level of accomplishment that a guy like me, who doesn't have children, does not bring to the table. I'm in my 40s. Women scratch their head and are like so why don't you have kids? So why have you never been married? And I have a whole other? It's like are you just a playboy? Are you just messing around, like you must not be that serious. Plenty of single moms have just said no because they assume I can't understand, I don't have the emotional maturity, I don't get it to be able to date them. I can't understand their lives. I've been disqualified sometimes from women that I really wanted to be involved with. If it's presented in a way that the woman is protected from the responsibilities of your children and your divorce, if it's presented in a way that the woman is protected from the responsibilities of your children and your divorce, if it's presented that way, being a single divorced dad can actually be a huge asset in the marketplace, sexually, yeah.
Speaker 1:And when we say a lot of ways it's a sign of maturity.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh yeah, absolutely. And I, I a hundred percent agree with that and I would say any age, not even just 40 or above, like, if you are responsible, great dad, that is. That is a huge, huge attraction for women. And when and I wanted to I wanted to just clarify that the protect thing, that that that means that you have your stuff in order, that she's not going to have to deal with and come in and fix and clean or have like all this strife around that you've got it in order, you've got it figured out, you know how to communicate, you know how to co-parent, you're good, like all that stuff that you know you're not putting on to her. So that's, I think. And just to reciprocate.
Speaker 2:Gentlemen, listen to the show. If you do not have your house in order, if you don't have your divorce figured out I'm not going to articulate this well because I've never gone through it but if, if your life still feels like a mess, jude is the man you need to talk to. If you don't feel like you've quite found the identity, if you feel like there are still pieces kind of scattered all over the floor again, I don't know what the words are here. Jude's got the words.
Speaker 2:Jude is the man you want to talk to to take the post-divorce life Well, I guess it's pre, during and post, but the threat of divorce and the actuality of divorce. He's the guy that knows how to take Humpty, Dumpty that fell off the wall, put him back together and make it so that you have an attractive life that you're presenting to women, to your children, to yourself and to the world. Again, Jude's the guy that knows how to do that. Because, Jude, I mean the story you've told me about what you've gone through. I mean it is some of the roughest stuff that I can imagine, and you've been doing this now for years with other men and you, I mean this is what you do. You help guys put the life back together the way they need it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, amen, and I appreciate that now that we've done our mutual plugs for each other. But you're exactly right there. I feel like we're both trying to. To emphasize to those listening is that there you can have a great life post-divorce dating with your kids, like it can be absolutely tremendous. And by getting involved, getting help, doing the work really that's the big thing doing the work that you need to do in in order to, to realize that. I tell you, I tell you I never, I never, ever ever, could have imagined the beauty in my life and the experience and the richness in my life that I have now, particularly when I was going through my divorce. So it does happen, it can happen, and so you know, just some, some more encouragement from from us guys. Dallas, this was good man, our time flies every time. There's like five more things I want to talk about with this, but tune in next week because we'll, we'll, we'll be here talking about you know, who knows? I don't know, we'll figure it out, we'll see.
Speaker 1:And before then all you guys listening that are going to get ahold of Dallas. How do they do it?
Speaker 2:Go to blackboxdatingcom. Go ahead and schedule a 20 minute call. We can talk about your situation and see whether or not my coaching program is a good fit for you. Blackboxdatingcom. Jude same to you. How can guys get in touch with you between this week and next week?
Speaker 1:Yep, the divorcedadvocatecom, all of your resources, wherever you're at in your divorce. So, dallas, thanks so much. Always a pleasure. We'll chat next week. Thanks, jude, talk to you next week. Bye.
