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Dads Dating After Divorce
Dating after divorce isn’t what it used to be—especially when you’re a dad. The rules have changed, the world has changed, and now you’ve got kids in the mix. Join Dallas and Jude as they share real-world strategies and insights from their work with dads and men at BlackBoxDating.com and TheDivorcedDadvocate.com.
Dads Dating After Divorce
16 - Green Flags & Gut Checks: What Makes a Great Partner After Divorce
Red flags are easy to spot. What’s harder—and far more useful—is training your eye for the green flags that tell you a relationship can actually work. We dive into the signals that matter most for dads dating after divorce: respect for fatherhood, emotional maturity, and consistency that builds trust instead of anxiety. You’ll hear how to test for these qualities without games, just clear beliefs, grounded vulnerability, and specific requests that lead to real change.
We unpack why a woman’s respect for your role as a dad is non-negotiable, and how complementary parenting styles can coexist without power struggles. We walk through nonviolent communication you can use today—identify the behavior, share a real feeling, make a specific request, and ask for agreement—so you can stop vague, circular arguments and start building habits that stick. We also explore why humor is a quiet superpower in conflict, turning pressure into connection without dismissing what hurts.
There’s more: how to spot support for your healing vs. pressure to “move on,” why requests aren’t the same as boundaries, and how self-leadership shows up under so-called “shit tests.” If you’ve wondered how to keep your frame, communicate clearly, and create a culture of appreciation that invites the right partner to lean in, this conversation offers practical scripts and mindsets you can use right away.
If this helped, follow the show, share it with a friend who needs it, and leave a quick review—tell us which green flag you’re looking for next.
Hello and welcome to Dad's Dating After Divorce, where we talk about the wild and interesting and well fun, can be fun world of dating after divorce. My name is Jude Sandval. I am the founder of The Divorced Advocate and my co-host Dallas Bluth, the founder of Black Box Dating. How you doing, Dallas? Doing awesome, Jude. How you doing? I am doing fantastic. It's been a really good week. Beautiful weather. I spent the weekend in the mountains, so I came back refreshed and ready for this week. And I'll just tell you, it makes a huge difference taking that time alone. It was with a couple other guys, had some guy time. We just went to the mountains. It was beautiful. So I am uh I am doing good.
SPEAKER_00:A lot of a lot of guys really undervalue the the recharging ability of hanging out with other men, without women around. Totally unprompted here. That's one of my actual rules when I'm dating is for every woman I go, for every date I go on with a woman, I try to go on a date with a man. And when I say date, I'm loose, I'm using that term loosely, obviously. It's not romantic, but I find that but I find that just like you said over this weekend, being alone with guys really can recharge your battery in a way that even good dates just don't recharge your battery.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and I love I've I've thought about that often recently. Your when you shared that with me, every time I go on a date or have an experience with women or spend time with a woman, I try to I try to balance that with a man too. That's not our topic for today, guys, but I think it is an important, important point, and and maybe we'll talk a little bit about that sometime in the future of how to balance your relationship with guy time, right? Because it's it's important, like you just mentioned. But what we are gonna talk about today is we just yeah, if you guys haven't figured it out yet, Dallas and I could just sit and and we don't do this because we don't see each other like more than once or twice a week, but we could literally just sit and talk about this stuff all day long. So what we are gonna talk about today is green flags. And you know, instead of just focusing, you hear us kind of say sometimes, I know both of us don't really like that term red flag so much, but it's one that's just because it's you overused, at least in in my is how I feel. But instead of talking about red flags, we're gonna talk about green flags, just positive signs that that a woman could be can be a healthy, supportive partner after divorce. And so we always it oftentimes I feel like when I'm talking to guys Dallas, that when I when I ask them, hey, what are you looking for in your relationship now? What is it? What are your plans? How do you want it? They can always talk about what they don't want, right? But rarely can they say, you know, this is these are the green flags I like emotional maturity or compatibility or relationship, like whatever it might be. So my first question to you is why like why focus on green flags and is that important for dads, specifically after divorce?
SPEAKER_00:Well, I I think I think the basic idea is red flags are shut doors. When we see something with a woman that is gonna not gonna work well and we label it as a red flag, you know, we shut that door. That closes us off. Green flags are the opposite. Green flags are open doors, they're invitations, they're they're yes, go ahead, proceed forward. They're they're positive, they're open, they're accepting, they're appreciating. If we focus too much on the closed doors and the red flags, that doesn't create a very attractive state inside of us as a man. Where when we counterbalance it with the things we are looking for, and we do appreciate them when we see them, that creates a state inside of us that's much more inviting, much more attractive, much more relaxed for the woman to experience. So when we focus on green flags, that makes us more attractive as men.
SPEAKER_01:Yes. And I like the saying, what you focus on, you will get more of, right? So 100%. With that, with that kind of mindset, if you're focused on positive things, and this is this is really true within the context of a relationship. Also, if you're focused, oftentimes we focus on, oh, I wish he or she would do that or this. But if you focus on the good stuff that expands and and can be even more beneficial. So that's kind of the mindset shift I try, I try to use with myself, is like, okay, what can I focus on that's really good? Start from there, and then if there are things, and that's not to say, and we're not saying, guys, today at all, ignore the red flags and just look at the green flags, because red flags are are there for you to pay attention to and and decide whether that's something that you can or can't deal with. And maybe they're maybe they are deal breakers and and and that's fine too. But the the green flags are are just really like like Dallas said, just great things to like build from, start from, have that mindset from, and and and move from there. And when you have that, it's almost the difference between a positive and negative mindset. I hate using that in a general terms, just positive, negative, because everything's just information, right? But but if you're focusing on green, meaning you know good, good things, things that you enjoy, like you said, stuff that aligns, et cetera, then that's that's good.
SPEAKER_00:And just to build on that slightly, when I have my weekly office hours with with my coaching members, we we obviously talk about red flags, problems. We also love to celebrate, you know, somebody has an amazing date, somebody, you know, had a wonderful experience, and those are all great. But even those wonderful experiences aren't exactly the same thing as a green flag. You know, when when we're celebrating somebody's win, it's a high, it's charged, you know, there's good energy. That's all great, but it has a certain intensity to it. When it when somebody actually shares an amazing quality that a woman has, which would be more along the lines of a green flag, it's the whole group has this collective sigh and release. And there's a there's a calming effect to green flags that just makes us feel like, yeah, this could go on for a good long while and could get better and better.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah. Well, and so on that, let's let's talk about one probably the first one that for for me I feel is the most important with divorce or divorcing dads is respect for your role as a dad. So that's and and there are multi-layers to that, at least in in my mindset. That could be somebody that doesn't have children, but does understand and respect that is not going to compete for your kids' attention, understands that the kids are important, that they're a blessing, they're a priority, and that they're not a burden. That's a that's a mindset that I see often. And not just maybe in women that don't have children, right? Women that that do have children. And the other thing is, and and this is really, really important to me. So this was one of the green real big green flags. A woman that that knows and appreciates your role in the context of masculine and feminine development in your children as a dad.
SPEAKER_00:That is such a huge one. You know, the the the role of the father, the fact that the father has a place in how they influence the the child rearing process, that is so huge. And that that is that is not something that that everybody values, that's not something that everybody admires, particularly in today's society. A lot of women really don't have a balanced scale with that. And what it is is we have complementary roles. We have complementary responsibilities, we have complementary influences on the child's life. And yeah, I would say that that that is probably one of the one of the biggest green flags that a single dad could get is respect for his role, valuing his role, and the fact that he's making the effort to be in these children's lives, his children's lives, as proactively as possible, and seeing that as noble, honorable, and especially healthy for the children. That is a huge green flag.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so why I brought this one up, number one, because this is literally probably the one that I've seen that has been the most challenging for me in my post-divorce relationships. And and find in finding somebody because it's it's it's it's complicated, right? Because uh the way that dads parent and the way that women parent is very, very different. And in in in divorce, what I see quite often is a diminishment of a father's value in what he brings to raising his children. And I don't know, I I sometimes uh sometimes it's conscious. Oftentimes what I find is it's it's it's subconscious or unconscious, they just don't know and don't understand. So so I've run into when I'm wanting to parent a certain way, or we've uh are spending time with each other's children, that it's the the way in which I parent has been diminished or devalued because they think that their way is the the the best way. And so so let's talk just a little bit more about that because and I'm we're probably gonna spend more time on this than than the other ones, but I think it's really, really important because I I'll have the conversations of hey, I respect that, but there's a balance to this. Dads bring discipline, they bring, they bring guidance, they they they bring direction, they bring like some very different things, and mothers bring nurturing and up like caregiving and some of those other things. And there's got to be a balance between that. So if you're seeing that she just doesn't like the kids discipline or there's no discipline, that's not necessarily like she might just not know understand like the dynamic. So a green flag is if she just does. So I I guess what I'm trying to get at here, Dallas, is I want to differentiate between it being a green flag, like she really understands that, and it being a red flag where she's completely discounting what you're doing, right? Maybe she doesn't know, maybe you need to have that conversation.
SPEAKER_00:So to clarify, are you talking about you're you're talking about the point of view of someone that you're dating? And are you talking about someone that has children of her own or has has raised children in the past, or is this someone that has never had children? Because I feel like we have to, we have to sort of we're looking at two very different dynamics. Someone who's never had children is looking at it through a totally different, you know, lens than somebody who currently has children or has raised them in the past.
SPEAKER_01:They're probably looking at it from a very different lens, but their mindset around it could be very much the same, whether they have children or not children. And that goes to my my point as to whether they consciously feel that way or just kind of don't really know why or how they feel that way. Does that make sense?
SPEAKER_00:It does. It does. Let me let me add to that another uh like a second, a second step green flag on that is how open are they to the discussion?
SPEAKER_01:Yes.
SPEAKER_00:Because someone might be coming to it, they've you know, they had a very absentee, let's say it's a mother with children that you're dating. She she has a very absentee, you know, ex, you know, husband, or you know, maybe they never never even got married, then maybe the man didn't stick around, and you know, and she has her point of view that that has been what's worked for her up until this point. I think one of the green flags is is she open to updating and hopefully improving or you know, informing her view of what parenting can look like and hopefully appreciating, you know, to a greater degree the value that the that a dad can bring and the certain traits that he can bring, especially when you separate it from the mother. I I think it's pretty clear that when you try to package all of the masculine and feminine trains in one parent, it doesn't really come off nearly as effectively. Where when you separate out some of those roles into two separate human beings, that has such a different impact on the children.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, absolutely. So you haven't seen you didn't see my notes, yeah, but that leads to the next one, which is emotional maturity, right? So we're talking about emotional maturity. Can she uh can she talk about disagreements or can she can she have a constructive conversation around that and see and understand what you just described, right? Because that is for a huge one for me because I've been in that role where I've tried to be mommy and daddy, and it's just virtually impossible. It's it's just it's not virtually possible, it's impossible. It's impossible for one person to encompass and effectively implement those roles for for your children. And that's you know, look, I'm not saying that for any of us to feel guilty or feel shame around this, guys, but it's just the it's it's just the way that we're just it we're designed, right? So so being able to have that conversation kind of from that context, right, is is really important. And then is she open to that? Is she open to understanding what that is if she doesn't, like you said, if she doesn't have kids or hasn't done that, or is she open if she's kind of had a fixed mindset around that, or maybe a bad experience, right? This goes to what you I what I appreciate you always bringing up, which is we all kind of bring our own experiences to this and and putting our shoes or putting putt ourselves in their shoes a little bit. Maybe they've had a really bad experience around this, and that's why they feel this way.
SPEAKER_00:Most men really under or are unaware and underappreciate the experiences that women have had. A lot of women don't share what those experiences are. A lot of it goes very unseen and unheard. But really, I mean, even statistically, the amount of women that that have have been through traumatic situations in past relationships is huge. And as guys, it it's almost impossible for us to really imagine what that would be like because it it's hard for us to just imagine being experiencing those sorts of things. But I want to circle back to the roles that are naturally there. There was one thing that I heard, I picked it up years ago. I want to say it was Jordan Peterson that was sharing it, but I'm not 100% certain on that. And he he boiled it down to a very simple essence of the the parenting styles between men and women, mothers and fathers. And he said that the the mother focuses on who the child is currently. They're validating, they they encourage who they are, they are they are supporting them, they're telling them that they are loved exactly the way they are today. That's the that's the mothering acceptance. And then by contrast, the father's role is uh essentially to focus on the potential of the child, to challenge them, to try to stimulate them, to, you know, and it turns into rough and tumble play and it turns into let's go out and do something. And and the thing that I love about that is those are two almost completely contradictory points of view. One is total acceptance of the way you are in loving you, and the other one is saying you can do better, you can grow larger. And if we cut out one of those, if all we do is accept someone and never stimulate growth by saying there's more potential inside, that's not going to lead to a healthy human. And if you lean completely towards the potential of what could be tapped into and you never love them as they are, that's that's going to lead to a very insecure and unloved individual. And I love the fact that mothers and fathers seem to fall into these roles rather naturally. I just want to throw that out there as one of the pieces I've understood for a father's role.
SPEAKER_01:That is absolutely positively spot on. And unfortunately, what I feel that that we're what we're experiencing now is that that's that's kind of gone to one end of the spectrum in in at least some of the the generations in in the past few decades that it's been more of, hey, you're okay the way you are, and less and not a balance with, hey, yeah, you are okay how you are, but we're always striving to be better. We're always looking for uh for or aiming. Jordan Peterson calls it aiming upwards, right? Like you're always aiming upwards towards something that can be even bigger or or better. We've got, and and I'll just say this as a as just something as a motivational for for all the dads listening. We have so much untapped potential as human beings. And and I know that might be hard to hear in the chaos that you're going through right now, but we really, really do. And I think some dads really embrace that and and appreciate that. But if you if you don't and you don't believe that, I promise you that is absolutely positively true.
SPEAKER_00:You know, and Jude, I love your energy when you tap into that. Again, you're speaking from an informed place as a father that I don't have. I don't have children. And I love hearing the enthusiasm and the and the sincerity coming out in what you're saying. And I I can just imagine you presenting that type of sincerity on a date with a woman, and then and then seeing does this woman see the value in what you're bringing to the table? Or does she dismiss it because it doesn't match her pre-existing worldviews? And and that right there, that's that's the green light or or the green flag, or you know, or the shut door.
SPEAKER_01:Well, I'm I'm glad you said that because I was gonna my question to you was going to be how do we s how do we spot somebody that has emotional maturity like that? And you use that example. I I I like that. And and one of the things that that I try to do is like ask a lot of questions and or put out maybe a belief that I have around that, like parenting and what dads do, and then see what their reaction is.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and and when you put that belief out there, you put it out there as a statement of belief, not as a question, not as sort of, well, this is kind of what I have, but what do you think about it? That's just sort of an invitation to a very squishy conversation. Um, I think the way you do it is you you stand firmly with where you are, you you know what you believe in, you share it, and you and you're sharing it knowing that you will always upgrade, you will always improve your worldview. There's always room to grow. And then once you put it out there, which is you being vulnerable, you know, you you stating what you're saying unapologetically without a question mark on it, that is leading with confidence and vulnerability simultaneously. And the way you do it is you then wait and see what does she do with that information. Um first of all, did she even listen? You know, is does she even engage with what you said now or in the future? Or is she just sort of letting your mouth run and the sounds come out until you're done and then she'll go back to talking, which is what a lot of people do in conversations. I think seeing the honest, open-minded engagement, that's that's how you know whether or not that green flag is there.
SPEAKER_01:So I'll tell you, one of the sexiest things for me is when I do that and we're in alignment, and then just a deep conversation results from from that. That is just it's such a turn-on for me. And it really builds it, it just just really builds something in a in a relationship, a rapport, a deeper, uh, a deeper relation with with that person when that happens. So I think that's I think that is a perfect, perfect one to to think about in in conversation.
SPEAKER_00:And you know, and when and when the woman does that, when she listens, she respects what you're saying, and she engaged with engages with it, that then in turn opens us up and softens us up to hear more of her side that you know we're we're we're not in her shoes, you know, we have to receive it from her. And that that exchange is is you know is the big is the big green flag for sure.
SPEAKER_01:And I want to I want to point something out that that is important with this that you always say it takes us leading with that vulnerability. Yes. So you've got to be one, you've got to know what your your beliefs and your values are. So if you haven't done that work, it this is just a waste of time, right? And well, it's not a waste of time. You could still be dating, but you're not gonna, you're not gonna be able to to to really go deeper. Maybe you're just maybe you're just getting out there and that's okay. Maybe you're still refining your beliefs and values, et cetera, and you're still getting out there, but you're not gonna be able to test that emotional maturity. You're not gonna be able to deepen that relationship by doing that. So you've got to know what those what those are before you do that. And then you've got to lead with that vulnerability. Like you always say, we need to to lead, you've got to be open and vulnerable. If you haven't done the healing then yet to do that, then you're probably not gonna be able to do this yet either. So again, I'm just reiterating we we have work to do before we get to this point.
SPEAKER_00:Absolutely. And also when you're making the statement, you can share it in a way where this is a working theory. This is how I feel about this today. This is my understanding of how to, you know, how to be a good father to my children. This is my understanding today, and it's still a work in progress. It's fine to present it that way too. That open-mindedness in a lot of ways really invites her into it. I've I've noticed a lot of women, one of the, I don't know if it's a criticism, but one of the struggles that they have is when they feel that a man is completely sort of sealed up and contained in his view of the world, and they don't feel like he's open at all. You can share what you believe and have it still be a belief as opposed to a hundred percent certainty. And that is one of the most attractive ways is to feel this is where your heart is, to feel this is where you've you've leaned in with your body, and you know that you're going to keep growing and upgrading that understanding.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And look, man, if any of us thinks that we know everything about everything going on here, you're just mistaken. I'm sorry. And I think probably our audience is a little more open to that after having gone through the challenges that they're going through with divorce, etc.
SPEAKER_00:I and I'm speaking specifically to the presentation of it. In in making sure that there are some invitations in your sharing, you know, this is the way that I've seen, you know, really works well with my children. And and leaving some doors open for her to walk through in the process. That that's all that's that's that's what I'm talking about, is just small details like that in the conversation.
SPEAKER_01:Sure, sure. So my next one is again another really important one. These are we're hitting my top ones off the bat, is consistency. Do her actions match her words? Does she follow through on what she says? And the reason being is that as a divorced dad, if she does this, that really creates a space of safety, it builds trust, which is going to help us to you know go to the next level with this person and potentially see them as a maybe a long-term partner. So my question with you is what why does consistency hit differently when you've been through a messy divorce? I kind of just answered it, but yeah, a little bit.
SPEAKER_00:How does consistency weigh in? Yeah, post-divorce. Well, vulnerability, we might lead with it in the beginning, but that's a that that's like priming the pump. That's a temporary effort that we make in order to, you know, it's sort of like, well, I'm gonna I'm gonna pay for these dates, I'm gonna buy dinner. Well, probably not for the next 10 years. The idea is you get into a place where there's more partnership involved. Same thing with the vulnerability. I'm going to pay first and lead with vulnerability, but it needs to be reciprocated, it needs to come back. I'm going to provide a certain amount of stability and security and safety. And this can't be a one-way street. This needs to be reciprocated, and you need to be able to let me also relax eventually as part of it. I would say that the consistency is what is what allows that two-way exchange to be built, and it's what allows us to eventually get into a partnership groove, you know, a dynamic pair bonding that that really causes both people to flourish. If the other person is inconsistent, we're kind of always making up for a lack on their end. We're kind of always like cleaning up after somebody's mess in a way. And if, you know, as a single dad, you're an adult. You're taking care of people that are making messes because they're children. That makes sense. You're not looking for a, you know, a third, a fourth, or a fifth quote unquote child that you have to clean up after because they're not consistent, because they don't do what they say. You know, you want someone that shows up as an adult. I mean, in a lot of ways, the consistency is the contrast to the other important people in your life that are your children. It provides you the type of adult dynamic and relief from the responsibilities. You know, you don't I I think the analogy is you shouldn't have to clean up of after this, after this partner, the way that you have been with your children. And consistency is a huge part of you saying that you don't have to.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and I think that guys that are that are or were codependent like myself find this one really hard because then you're always doing and always trying, and you're not getting, you know, you're not getting that that feedback, but we're we keep trying. And so on that note, how what how do you approach talking about that? Because they're obviously not open to to to it because they're not showing, they're not, they're not reflecting vulnerability with you. They're saying one thing, but doing another thing, and you just you can't ignore this. But before you're worried, before you're using this as a red flag and saying, okay, well, this isn't gonna be, this isn't gonna work, how do you how can you approach that with somebody and have that conversation?
SPEAKER_00:So I'm actually gonna say the first thing about what you're not, what I don't ever find has been effective, is to actually is to actually talk about it in the form of a conversation as this big thing that needs to be addressed. That in an in an abstract sense. I find it's far more effective to be very specific and clear about something specific. So, for example, you know, showing up on time for dates, let let's say it's something like that, and you can just make it clear to them, hey, this is really important to me because I have limited time. I can't just be free-spirited about this, what whatever the thing is, the more specific, concrete, and detailed we can be, the the more we are actually helping the other person know exactly what to do. We're what we're doing is we're removing interpretation from the equation. When we have a large conversation about, well, I need you to be more consistent, well, what the hell does that mean? I mean, consistency in what area of life, how does it show up? It's, you know, it's like I could see myself as consistent, she could see herself as consistent, but we're looking at, you know, totally different rooms in the house, you know, to use a metaphor. When I tell her specifically the things that I need to be her to be consistent about, that removes a lot of room for miscommunication, a lot of room for misunderstanding. And then I see what does she do with that information? And I I actually give this advice to women all the time. Tell men exactly what will make you happy, and then see what they do with that information, because that'll tell you everything you need to know about whether or not your happiness matters to that man.
SPEAKER_01:Right, right. So there's something that is called a skill that is called nonviolent communication. You've probably you've probably heard it before. It's just three, four steps, which is identify the behavior and just talk about the behavior, like you said, what when you're late. Uh talk about how it makes you feel. It makes me feel because you can't argue with how you're feeling, right? That's not that's not negotiable, it's how you're feeling. So you're sharing, but it that takes being vulnerable and actually knowing how you're feeling. And it can't be pissed off all the time. It's gotta be, you know, you gotta go a layer deeper than I'm pissed off when you when you it makes me feel disrespected, right? Or you're something like that, or or devalued, or something like that. I would and then state what it is that you would like to see, uh, which is the third step. I would I would like for us to to agree that we'll be on time for our dates, and then get buy in from them and agreement. And then, like you said, depending on how then they react to that next time or ongoing is going to determine what What whether that they are consistent or not and then help you. Is it if they're consistent, yeah, this is a green flag, great. They're not, they're completely walking through the the boundary. You're we in in the codependent world, we're talking about setting boundaries, right? That's a that's a boundary that you're creating, the beyond time. Uh and then if they don't they don't adhere to that, if they don't uh value that because you do, then they're just disrespecting that that that uh boundary, and that's your answer.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. And uh for me, I guess the part that I was focusing on the most is is the the clarity and concrete nature of the request. You know, because a lot of times it'll be I'd like you to be more respectful of my time. That's again leaves a lot of room for interpretation. You know, I would I you know I'd like for you to text me when you're leaving home and let me know when the Google Maps says you're going to be there. That's much more concrete than you know, than than than just uh respect my time. You know, one one of them is you know, you can follow a set of instructions and know exactly what you know what what those steps are. A lot of people, this this this comes back to a very fundamental concept in communication, which is we communicate in words, but we think in pictures. And the whole job of communicating with words is to try to see the picture that's in your mind and then to reveal to other people the picture that's in my mind. And the more concrete we are about that picture, the easier it is to have that communication. And to your point with the nonviolent communication, when I part of that picture is how I feel. So I feel sad, I feel lonely, I feel you know, disrespected, I feel like, you know, like I'm I'm losing hope in this relationship. When you show up 45 minutes after you said you were going to be here, and I had no warning, I had no idea, it causes me to start to implode inside. You know, those that is also clarity about those feelings. It's you know, and saying it's like, because a lot of times, and you know, both sexes do this, but I think men are particularly, particularly good. You know, someone will ask, Well, how do you feel? But then what you'll get is an assessment of the situation. It's like, well, I feel that you're not respecting my time. That's not a feeling. Right. I feel sad is a feeling. I feel angry, I feel whatever. And and a lot of times we'd we make this shift. Both men and women do it, but men, I think, are especially prone to it. What are you feeling? Make sure it's a feeling word that you're actually putting out there. And boy, that's when you again coming back to the vulnerability, that's doubly vulnerable, you know, to do as a guy. And when you tell her, I feel really sad when you made me wait 45 minutes and I don't know, you know, when you're gonna be here, how does she respond to you feeling sad? Tells you a lot of really important information, almost even more than the actual behavior. She's like, oh my gosh, I had no idea it was making you feel that way.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Well, exactly. So somebody that is emotionally mature is then going to take that to heart and then have that conversation about that, right? Well, and that goes both ways, right? Exactly. But they're gonna, they're gonna have that conversation, like, well, that wasn't my intention. And let's let's talk about I I I didn't intend to go down this route, but let's talk a little bit about since we've we're we're talking specifically about setting boundaries and and kind of this. We're talking a little bit, so they call I I've heard them referred to as shit tests. Women are gonna test you a little bit to kind of see where your boundaries are, if you can, if you can hold your frame of mind appropriately, are you gonna get all worked up and pissed off about this? The the other thing that I appreciate about nonviolent communication is it takes emotion out of it, right? So you're not like you said, you're the the vagueness in the beginning of like a you know, I I I I feel like you're not respecting my time and not showing, like if you just say you showed up 45 minutes late, that makes me feel it makes me sad, it makes me feel disrespected. I would like for us to agree. It's very matter of fact, you're not you're not getting into the emotions, you're not getting into intense, like you always do this, you like you're mean, like you don't care about me, you don't love like it takes all of that out of it, right? You're you're still holding your frame of mind around that. You're being calm, you're being cool, you're directly talking about what the action is, how you feel, what you want to see, and then whether or not she wants to agree to it or not. And it's a like you say, like you always talk about, which is then it's an invitation. That's an invitation to your world and how you want it to function and how you're going to be able to be in relation together. And just understand, guys, also, this might be hard for you to do, particularly if you're non-confrontational or you're a pleaser or codependent, but you're gonna have to learn to do this. And so then you're inviting, and and you're gonna have to also know that she might just walk away, right? It might, and and if she's emotionally immature, she'll be like, oh, you're too sensitive, or blah, blah, blah, or whatever. And that's fine. That's your answer, right? But somebody that's emotionally immature is gonna be might be say, hey, well, help me understand why that you feel this way, or it might lead to something which can be a deeper relate, deeper conversation that will expand your relationship.
SPEAKER_00:Dude, you have such a fundamental grasp and understanding of nonviolent communication. I I hope all of your clients are getting that as part of their work with you, because that is the the skills that you're talking about, because again, part of what you had in there was the, oh, well, you always do this to me. And that takes it back up to a higher level of abstraction. And you're saying, no, no, no, you have to focus on just the basics of the behavior, what you're feeling. And these are non-negotiable. You did or did not show up on time, you are feeling this way. I do make personally a distinction when it comes to the word boundaries. So I my the most influential book that I read was a book by Henry Cloud called Boundaries. Really opened my eyes to a lot of good information about it. And the most important word with boundaries is you saying no. A boundary is like a fence, it says no, you don't cross over this, or you know, yes, I will let you through this, you know, according to this. But but boundaries are basically just saying no to other people. So I make a distinction between a boundary, which is which is again stopping something, and making a request. I I see making a request not as a boundary, I see it as asking, please, will someone else make a change in their behavior. Okay, that for me, like I don't wrap that around a boundary because I don't get to control someone else's behavior. They get to say no to my request, that's their boundary. But saying, well, I need to be treated this way, that's not a boundary. Me saying I won't be treated this way, I'm leaving, that's a boundary. But saying I want you to behave a different way, that for me is out of bounds for boundaries personally.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I agree. I think that's a good reframe in how to look at it.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. And so I've actually found that it's very, very useful for the woman, but especially for myself to call out the fact that I'm making a request. So I will say, you know, I'd like to make a request and then follow that up with the new behavior that I'm requesting that the person does. But the fact that I'm saying I'm I'm owning the fact that I'm making a request of them, it clears it up completely. I'm I'm asking for a change in the behavior. Because usually behavior changes are like, well, but if you love me, you would behave this way. And it's sort of this passive-aggressive throwing body weight around, you know, push and pull. But if I say, can I make a request? I would love it if you put the lid on the toilet down, you know, whenever, you know, after you go to the bathroom or whatever the thing is. Making it clear that I'm making the request, it separates the two of us. We're not intermeshed. We're not like, oh, well, if you love me or if you cared about this, or if you really respected my time, like it removes all of that. It's here's the request. And then the person, you know, will or will not follow it. And bringing it back to green flags, everybody coming to it is coming from a very different bizarre world than the other person. The biggest green flag you can have in a relationship is when conflict comes up, because all of what we're talking about here is conflict, nonviolent communication, an approach to dealing with conflict. How does that person deal with the conflict? And when I make a request for a change in behavior, how do they deal with that? Do they say yes and they actually do it? Do they say yes and then completely forget about it? Do they say no and then tell them why? Because on their end, they're they are setting a boundary because they said no. Or do they say no because they say I'm overreacting and you know, they're just shooting, lobbying bullets back this way at me? The green flags are there saying yes, I'll do this, and then following up, or saying no, and then helping you understand where they're coming from. Just to bring it back to the topic, for me, how do they deal with those requests is the huge thing.
SPEAKER_01:Well, then that comes back to the consistency, which is what we started with as this green flag is will there, is there is there is are there actions supporting what they say? Right?
SPEAKER_00:So I I want to throw in you're all you're the note taker. I love it. You've got the structure, you've got the outline for all this, you know, and you know, and I get to I get to you know work off of it and riff off it's awesome, and they never get to see your notes, so you get to kind of like just shoot from whatever side, and I never know what's gonna happen. Okay, so I'm gonna throw in one that I think is a huge green flag, particularly when it comes to conflict. Can the woman laugh with you as a result of dealing with conflict? Do both of you get to a place where you're like, oh my gosh, like this is so messy, and you know, and we're just you're laughing about it because the truth is, I mean, again, I don't have kids, but I've been around them. I mean, like, it's a shit show. I mean, like, there is stuff going on. I I heard a story from one of my dad friends where he had the newborn and then he had the two-year-old, and the two-year-old threw up into the heating vent register in the floor during winter. So the heat is like throwing vomit smells out of the vent, and he's trying to clean it up while you know doing it. And I'm just like, holy cow! And it's the sort of thing where it's like obviously high conflict situation. You have to get to the place where you can laugh about it. And I would say one of the green flags is with whatever woman, whether she has children or not, can she get to a place of understanding and and and oh understanding is the world. Can you get to a place of understanding and mutual respect enough that she can laugh about what's going on, you know, in your world and in her world? I would say that is one of the most important green flags.
SPEAKER_01:I would agree with that. And that was actually in my notes as bonus green flags, right? Not believing it, no way. No, you stole that one from me. I got to it first, so it's mine. Can she laugh, have fun, even in in tough times? Because, hey, it's gonna be like you said, shit happens, man. I mean, it's just you just and you just never know. So somebody that has yeah, somebody that has that, that I would say that is a really attractive trait for me with uh with a woman that can just like laugh through tough times and know that everything's gonna be okay, even if it's a if it's uh it's a challenging time. So yeah, I I agree. I think that's a great one, and vice versa. So and and I would say, I knew you were gonna say that. See, I'm starting to I'm starting to catch on to your onto your tricks here. No, but I was gonna say I struggle with that sometimes because I get pretty serious about stuff and I get like, oh, this is heavy. And so I have to remind myself to be humorous also, as well. And then when I am, I I see all the time. It's it makes a huge difference. It is, and it's not just attractive the way it's attractive to people, people in general, other guys, people at work. Like, if you can have just a humorous mindset around life, then man, that's why people love comedians, right? It's it's just awesome. It just feels so good to be around them and their energy and how funny they are and how light they are.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. I think I think lightness is part of it because you're releasing the tension of the conflict. When you can come all the way back down to laughing about what just happened, and again, sort of the absurdity of you know, all the things we go through in life, it it releases the tension. And yes, you did call me out. Yes, apparently you are catching on to my tricks. The reason it's really, really extra important for men to know to do this is because women know that men are inherently dangerous. You know, for better or worse, you know, and we and you don't want to lose that dangerous side. That's part of the the attractive, sexy side of masculinity is the fact that like we can deal with stuff, you know, like we we do have a dangerous edge inside of us. Well, I'm sure we'll talk about that more in the future. But because that danger is there, she needs to know that she is safe and that she's on your team. And part of the reason is you pop the you top pop the top on that bottle inside of you and you let out that pressure and she sees it. And she might help you do that in a lot of ways, but really, this is one of the areas as a guy we should be leading to show that life's okay, you know, we're gonna laugh about this, don't worry, we'll get it, you know, we'll stay up if we have to to fix it. You know, it's like it's only money. Let's write a check to like make it happen, you know, and you being able to not not get bent out of shape as a man, oh, that that gives so much freedom to women to feel lighthearted on their end.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And let's clarify, we're not we're not suggesting you need to become a stand-up comic, right? Or or get really good. That just it just means that you're not going dark and worst-case scenario. You're again holding, like you just said, holding your composure, but then bringing it to some, and and bringing it might be like going to a comedy club, doing something during a difficult time that might bring some lightness to the situation. It doesn't mean that you actually have to change your personality to become a clown or dress up in a clown suit or any like any crazy thing to change yourself, but you just have to hold that situation and then bring a lightness to it in whatever way you can.
SPEAKER_00:So this isn't, yeah, we're not talking about a performance. We're not talking about you, yeah, just making her telling her funny stories that make her laugh. I mean, if you can, great, yeah, develop that a little bit. We're not talking about performing, we're talking about being real. We're talking about showing who and where you really are and inviting her to be authentic with you all the way down to the yep, okay, and and and and and in the light of being real, I'm gonna take it back to a serious one.
SPEAKER_01:Next green flag is supports your healing and doesn't rush it. Because so if she does she doesn't judge your divorce story or pressure you to quote unquote move on faster than you're ready, and she respects your process and emotional timeline. And so this is important because you want, and and again, this goes to you then having to be clear with where you're at and what your intentions are around dating. So again, this takes conversations up front, being being clear about what your intentions are when you're dating, where I'm just looking for companionship, or I'm ready to get married again, whatever that that might be, but sensing and having the conversations about that. So, how can a dad tell if someone's actually supportive versus just tolerating your baggage?
SPEAKER_00:So I'm actually going to bring this back to what we were saying earlier, Jordan Peterson's comment about women honoring what is in a person and men are honoring the potential in a person. I think that when when when a man or any person presents to a woman, yeah, I'm still recovering from this and I'm not ready, if that women are the ones that are supposed to understand that the best. I mean, men are the ones that are like, no, I want to do it now. You know, like we're the ones that have this, you know, like sort of built-in sense of urgency. I I think I think women should, you know, the acceptance of, oh wow, that's where you are right now. And her saying, okay, that's not going to work for me because I want to get married and start having kids myself. And she, you know, and she says lovingly, you know, we're not on the same timeline schedule. I don't want to wait another year and a half or two years for you to maybe be ready to marry again. I'm ready to get married, you know, much sooner than that. And she steps away that, well, you just lost the good one, you know, because that's actually having the emotional maturity of it. Yeah, well, let me hear your thoughts. Because I'm I well, let me also ask in return. So I haven't run into this a whole lot where women are pushing a man to be to move on faster. Can you can you give me some more details on what that looks like?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, sure, yeah. And and so it strikes me, Dallas, when we're talking about all this, but when we're talking about everything about relationships all the time, communication is absolutely key all of all of the time. Communication and and and being comfortable with the fact that you might not be in the same place and that you need to walk away. And because if you don't, then that just creates problems. And that's been my problem lots of lots of times too, where where I've said, okay, I'm I'm not being true to what I really need at this moment, and then that becomes a problem because then all kinds of things can you can become resentful or any other myriad of of emotions or or problems come up. And so, yeah, I I have seen I have seen this happen, but I can distinctly say that it's become a problem only because of my lack of communication in being up front, or or in or at least the the circumstances I'm thinking of, it was just the fact that I I hadn't defined my intentions and what I had wanted enough to be able to communicate those. And so I hadn't done the the work to do that, and then that became a problem because then there's inconsistency in what each of us wanted. So so again, that goes to the to the leadership. The other thing that strikes me is we keep talking about this leadership, and I think sometimes guys feel gets get a little bit tense around that of well, what what does that mean? You you you think of like Patton leading the troops in, and you're like it's it's it is not it is not that is really everything that we've talked about, which is doing the work on yourself, knowing what it is that that you want, being intentional, learning to communicate, refining things like uh like your humor, bringing lightness to to that stuff. That's that's leadership. Leadership starts with yourself and leading yourself, and then people are drawn. Leaders, people, you know, people I think misunderstand understand when they talk about good leaders out there, like they like leaders go and recruit people. Leaders just have people that end up following them because of who they are and what you know what direction they want, and then they they want to go in that direction too. And and so it takes being a good leader in your relationship in order to uh to to um mitigate some of this this stuff or these communication challenges.
SPEAKER_00:100%. I'm glad I'm glad you got there. Because for me, leadership is, I would say, 90% self-leadership. I have to learn to lead myself. And the more I lead myself, the more, like you said, other people naturally want to follow. It's because you've inspired them. Most people don't lead themselves very well. We're we're living in a world of reactionary behaviors. Leadership is being proactive as opposed to reactive in the world. And that is the most of the work is you how do you lead yourself? Self-leadership is the absolute root and majority substance of leadership. And along with that, you you were talking about some of the relationships you've been in. I might get the wording slightly off, but how you were committed to them and leaning into them, but not fully honoring yourself. Do I have that right? Yeah. So for me, the the terminology I use with you know with my clients is that you've you've got your loyalties out of order. So you're loyal first externally before at and at the expense of and secondarily you're being loyal to yourself. You need to be loyal to yourself. And I I know this is a big jump, but I want to come back to the topic that we hardly touched on, which was when women shit test us. When women are shit testing us, they're not testing how we are or how we feel or how we behave with regards to them. What they're really trying to test is what what is our own independent self-leadership? What are we loyal to in ourselves in our own leadership sense? Because what they want to know is that the way that we're behaving isn't dependent on them.
SPEAKER_01:Yes.
SPEAKER_00:They're the shit test is is really, I want to wash off all of your sexual attraction to me, all of your emotional attachments. I want to, I want to see who you are, buddy, completely independent of me. That's why the shit tests seem kind of like arbitrary and disconnected from from the interactions that are happening. It's because she wants to know what kind of a guy are you, all on your own.
SPEAKER_01:Exactly. How are you gonna show up in the world? Because innately, they want somebody, if you can't, if you can't stand up to, stand up to is probably not a not a great, not that not the best term, but if you maintain a frame, handle, if you can't handle her shit test, how are you gonna handle the rest of the world when it comes at you and your family? Right. So there's this, there's this just a biological thing inside of her, physiological thing that she needs to be protected, cared for, etc., by you. And and so if you can't handle what little she's you know, what little difficulty she's bringing to you, you're not gonna be able to handle the rest of the world because the rest of the world is gonna kick our asses. And so she wants to know that. So if you can reframe it like that and don't start getting all pissy about why is she doing this now, why is she doing that, and just again, hold that frame, hold that frame of mind, just be confident, light about it. Again, humor with some of this stuff is like, you know, and and one of the funny ones that I always talk about is like the hold my purse thing, you know, and and then like I'll do something stupid, like stand up like like I'm a like a coat rack or something, I'll be like, Am I your coat rack? You know, and then I'll walk away. And and so, you know, it's just stupid stuff, like stupid stuff like that. And they're like, You're such an ass, or something like that. And you know, but like it's a shit test, and it's just it's ridiculous. But if you're funny about it and you're stupid, like they don't get instead of being like, Well, what if like I always got to carry your shit and like da-da-da, like what you know, don't do that. Just do something funny, walk away, and then be done with it.
SPEAKER_00:And then they know, and then they you've passed the shit test and it's over. Yeah. Well, and and those, and those shit tests, it what it really is, is there's not necessarily a right or wrong way to respond. It's what it's how do you react in a certain situation? She's throwing you into a situation, she's kind of stress testing you. One of the images I like to think about is if you if you think about sort of like, I don't know, hunter-gatherer days, or you're stranded on a desert island and you make like a hut, you know, out of sticks and you know, lashed together with vines and everything, you know, and you say to your woman, like, okay, cool, I've made our little house. She's not gonna just walk into it. Like, she's gonna go over and she's gonna push on it a little bit to see whether or not it's gonna stand up because she doesn't want to be inside your house when it comes crashing down. She doesn't want all of that material falling down on her head. She doesn't want it. Anybody, you you, you know, when we lash it all together, when we're building it, we're gonna push on it and see what what kind of stress test it can take. And here's the other thing, because a lot of guys think, okay, you get these shit tests up front. I passed them, I said it, stop doing them. Well, okay, that was yesterday. We had a big, we had a big windstorm last night. Well, let's go outside and check and see what the status of the hut is. You know, can we still push on this? Is this still going to stand up? And it and it it that's normal. Like any anybody wants to be sure that that the thing is still stable. And I'm just gonna throw this out there and I'm gonna bet this isn't on your list. Is that that is also a green flag for a woman? Is that she's been through the world enough to not just go, oh, I trust you, no matter what. I know you can take care of it. It's like, no, she's been through the world enough to know that windstorms and rainstorms happen, and she's been through it enough to see that not all men respond to them the same way. And she's like, I want to be with a guy that has enough good qualities that I can trust him when the shit hits the fan. And I so I would say that a woman that actually throws out shit tests is, you know, is actually a green flag.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. I would that on your list. Only thing, yeah, no, only thing I would uh add to that is oftentimes it it's just not even a conscious thing for them. Like it's just again, a natural, innate thing that they're doing in and and they don't even they don't even know it. So don't take it personal. That's the point, is don't don't take it personal.
SPEAKER_00:Women operate much more intuitively than men do for the most part, and thank God they do, because we need that intuition, we need those instincts. Men operate more consciously, and thank God we do, because we need that also in order to you know send rockets in outer space and have this wonderful internet connection working between the two of us most of the time. That's exactly thank goodness, and and appreciate the fact that she's going to be different about it. Don't accuse her and get upset at her for being fundamentally different.
SPEAKER_01:Yep. No, that's a good thing. It's a good thing if we can appreciate that. All right.
SPEAKER_00:Any any last any last thoughts, Dallas? Uh, last thoughts. Green flags need help. For us to walk into a situation and go, hear the red flags, here are the green flags, check, check, check, check, check, and I'm gonna, I'm I'm gonna, you know, you know, go no go on this situation. I understand why we're doing that, but that's rather critical of the world. When you see that there is really potential with someone, when you feel there's a good emotional connection, when you feel that she she really fundamentally is a good person, help her bring out the green flags. Again, being really concrete, using the nonviolent communication that you outlined for us early on in this episode. And and again, like you said, it really comes down to communication. Communicate and and give her every opportunity to show the green flag and demonstrate it. Getting into philosophical, moral, right and wrong conversations is very rarely effective. Get much more basic and much more applicable and make requests and see what she does, because that's really inviting the green flags to come out. What about you, Jude? What did we what did we not cover on your list that you want to really get out there?
SPEAKER_01:No, I I think we we did a I feel like we did a pretty adequate job here for sure. I would just reiterate, lean into those green flags and then work through the red flags uh as as best you can. And if you're gonna if you focus on those green flags and and highlight those, things will expand. The good things, like focus on the good of the relationship that you find with them. That stuff expands, that leads to more goodwill and happiness and comfort and all those good things that come with a relationship, and then the red flags, if you can highlight that stuff, the green flags 90% of the time, and then just talk about those red flags, just a smaller percentage of that time, you're gonna have a beautiful relationship.
SPEAKER_00:And the magic words to do that are thank you. You thank her for the green flags, you thank her for doing the things she's doing. That's how you, if you're wondering how you show appreciation, if you wonder how you encourage the magic words, are thank you. Followed by specifically what she did. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Dallas, thank you for today, for for all of your pearls of wisdom. Where can where can the uh the listeners get in touch with you?
SPEAKER_00:Jump on over to uh blackboxdating.com. That's where you can check out the coaching program. And we'll be hitting the streets in Denver this Friday. If you're a member of the program, you're more than welcome to join us. Yeah. That's what you do. Jude, same to you. How can guys learn more about all of your awesome communication skills post-divorce?
SPEAKER_01:Yes, check out the divorced advocate.com. That's the website. We've got resources wherever you're at in your divorce. We got coaching and podcast and everything else. So check it out at the divorced advocate.com. Dallas, always a pleasure. An hour goes by so fast with us, but I look forward again talking next week. Talk to you next week, dude. Take care.
