.png)
Dads Dating After Divorce
Dating after divorce isn’t what it used to be—especially when you’re a dad. The rules have changed, the world has changed, and now you’ve got kids in the mix. Join Dallas and Jude as they share real-world strategies and insights from their work with dads and men at BlackBoxDating.com and TheDivorcedDadvocate.com.
Dads Dating After Divorce
21 - Let's Get Physical: The Art Of Escalation
If touch has felt confusing after divorce—too fast, too formal, or just plain awkward—this conversation gives you a clear path from grounded presence to real chemistry. Jude and Dallas unpack the missing link many men never learned: how to make physical contact a normal, human bridge to connection long before it turns romantic. You’ll hear why American men often oversexualize touch, how to rebuild it as a confident, everyday skill, and how that foundation makes dates feel safer, smoother, and far more attractive.
We dive into the two pillars that change everything: physical certainty and emotional certainty. Physical certainty comes from living in your body—sports, drills, hard training, and experiences that teach control and power. Emotional certainty is steadiness under pressure: the ability to hold your own desire without needing immediate validation. Together, they create the calm energy that signals safety and leadership, whether you’re offering a first hug, guiding through a crowd, or placing a steady hand on a forearm to anchor a point.
From there, we shift into arousal with clarity. No sneaking, no mixed messages. Learn how transparent intent turns “creepy” into compelling, why consent is the floor and mutual desire is the goal, and how to read the simple metric behind all cues: is she leaning in or leaning away? We cover pacing (planting seeds and letting anticipation work), using statements instead of permission-seeking questions, and the classic 90% lean that invites her last 10%. You’ll also get practical lines and moves—like closing the gap with a playful “You’re a little too far away”—plus how to treat every cool reaction as feedback, not failure.
If you’ve wondered when to escalate, how to avoid overthinking consent, or how to build attraction without alcohol and awkwardness, this episode lays out the steps. Practice nonsexual touch daily, show up grounded on dates, signal desire openly, and escalate with care and courage. Want to go deeper and practice in real life? Join Dallas’s field work sessions or connect with Jude for post-divorce coaching. Subscribe, share with a friend who needs it, and leave a review to help more dads find their footing and their spark.
Hello and welcome to Dad's Dating After Divorce. The only pack, the only podcast out there for men like us, dads uh traversing the wild and interesting world of dating after divorce, which looks nothing like dating pre-divorce. I'm my name is Jude Sandwell. I am the founder of the Divorce Advocate and your co-host. My other co-host today is Dallas Bluth. Today and always, I don't know why I always say that, the founder of Black Box Dating. How are you doing, Dallas? Hopefully better than my tongue and my mouth is this morning, apparently.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I'm doing great. Your tongue and mouth might not be working. My nose isn't working. I've been congested for the last five days. Um it's uh it's the start of the season, you know, for all that stuff going into the holidays. But uh you gotta roll with it, right? It's just part of being part of being on planet Earth.
SPEAKER_01:At least we're we're gonna warn the listeners up front. This might not be the most audibly pleasing episode because we're both struggling this morning. So bear with us. We've got a great topic, though. It's definitely gonna be worth it for you listening to. I'm affectionately titling it Let's Get Physical. You know, the old Olivia Newton-John, and I'm dating myself with that reference, right? The Olivia Newton-John song Let's Get Physical, but we're gonna be talking about how to introduce physical touch and becoming intimate with with a woman we've kind of been talking about over the last several weeks, some some dating tactics and you know how to how to how to how to welcome somebody into how to to give what do you call it? Invitations. Yes, how you give you invitations, etc. So now we're gonna talk about how you kind of take that next step and invite into physical touch, right? So so so we're let's set the scene, Dallas. You've kind of been dating maybe on uh maybe on a couple of dates, right? And and hopefully you know or understand how to introduce some physical touch into that, because really when we're we're doing this dating process, right, we're wanting to create connection with somebody. And part of creating a connection with somebody is is a physical connection with somebody, but that doesn't mean that you're gonna go and start making out with them on the first date, which can happen. Like that does happen, it can happen, right? And and it's not necessarily a bad thing, uh, and and we can talk about that a little bit, but but at the very least, you're you're wanting to start to create that that physical connection with somebody. And so so let's talk about first how do we start to kind of break that touch barrier some with somebody in those first few dates where you're starting to build connection. Maybe you're feeling you're liking this person, you're you're getting some of the signals back, but you might not be totally sure. Like, what's you know, what are what's going on in our mind? What are we thinking about? What's the the situations and and how do we kind of start to to introduce that?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, okay, a great topic. This is this is a really, really fun topic, right?
SPEAKER_01:Like we all want to be touchy-feely and like you know, like eventually be intimate with somebody, right?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, okay, so this uh this starts much, I would say, earlier in the dating process than than what you just laid out. I would say physical touch is something that needs to be a natural part of our lives as men. It if physical touch begins when we are expressing attraction and desire for a woman, we're you're you're too late for it to feel natural and appropriate and welcomed. Physical touch needs to be something that is that is firmly established from the very beginning. Okay, we're just gonna back this up. Even before you're on a date, physical touch should be something that you get to a comfortable place with, with yourself and with people around you. Not I'm not saying you go around and you touch every person, but I I know I've had situations, I'm I'm at I'm at Line at Starbucks, you know, getting something. I'm kidding around with a husband and wife next to me, you know, and we go back and forth. And that husband will clap me on the shoulder. He'll he'll break the physical barrier and he will touch me on the shoulder, you know, once or twice. And it feels amazing for me as a as a straight adult male to receive that from another straight adult male. It makes me feel welcomed. It makes me feel like we took it from just kidding around into feeling grounded and connected. The level of trust is is larger. I feel relaxed around him. And he did that with his hand. He did that because of the way that he physically touched me. Okay, there is zero percent physical sexual attraction built into that scenario with that man and his wife. Zero whatsoever. But there is a huge amount of good feelings and vibes in that physical touch. That's a skill that every adult man needs to develop. And one of the challenges we run into in the United States is that American men, we have been told, we have been taught, we have been conditioned that most of our touch is sexualized. That is way off topic. That is that is way wrong. We have to understand that physical touch, physical connection begins in a non-sexual context and then can, with certain people and certain feelings, move into an attraction, sexual, you know, special intimate affection realm. But we have to start with being comfortable with non-sexualized touch. And you begin to do that by on the first date. But before I go into that, let me let you jump in and respond to uh Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I just wanted to uh I just wanted to make the point to to the dads listening that if that's uncomfortable for your if you didn't even know that, then it's not your fault. That's something that's modeled, right, by uh by uh an adult male in your in your early adult life or your childhood that that knows and understands that. Because right, like I didn't I didn't know, I didn't understand that uh as well. The the the the the shoulder slap, like sometimes you'll like slap another guy on the shoulder, and like that's just a fun thing, right? And you don't know that, or like buddies that you might be closer, you might put your arm around and be talking, or like at a game or cheering, like you know, that's that's exactly what you're talking about. And so, so I I feel like, and and we're gonna get into this. We we just have this weird, I don't want to say weird because for whatever reason it's developed and things develop in society for for whatever reason, but just this uh uncomfortable just unc un being uncomfortable with physical touch in general in our in our in our in our society. And and you're right, it has to be, and I hadn't really thought about the what it has become, but it's but it's become like, oh, you touch and it's sexual, whether it's male, whether it's female, it's not, and it's really not because you see men in other countries that embrace each other and kiss each other, and that's a that's that's really, really normal. And it's obviously, obviously not that sexual. The other thing I'll talk about or that I want to point out is like handshakes. You do get taught handshakes as as a as a man, oftentimes in in the the the the corporate world, and how to do that and how to you know support underneath or putting over when you're shaking with the other hand and stuff, and what the the different meanings are or around that. So that's all the same, that's all kind of the same concept here of what we're talking about. And I like that you started it off with the you know the the the male part of it because it it translates into how you act, like you said, how you are able to act and how comfortable you are feeling with with a woman in doing it. And so so I think that's that's good. And and and maybe we can, I this was not even in my notes, right? I was gonna talk about it in the concept con context of of women, but let's talk about then how how do we develop that with our our bros, right? With with each other and and doing that without making it weird. Like we're not gonna like I'm not gonna start going and kissing my my buddies, right? Like they do in Europe. So that's like probably off the table. That's just gonna be a little too much for most any everybody to handle. But how can we how can we start to to do that and feel comfortable?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, good question. So what we have to do is realize, so let's take a handshake, for example. When you go to shake someone's hand, that's that's like saying hello, how are you? It can be extremely commonplace and meaningless. It can be very much just going through the motions and and it doesn't hold a whole lot of anything in it meaning, intentionality, presence, and any of that. However, you know, you if I don't know, for one out of every 10 or 20 people you shake their hands, for some reason it feels different. That person is actually present in that moment. That person, they actually make time stop for just a moment to let you to let you feel that your presence is being fully seen by them. Okay, that's what you need to be practicing it's with the physical touch. We're not slapping each other on the soldier on the shoulders, trying to get, I don't know, comfortable in in a in a non in a completely nonchalant, meaningless, kidding around roughhousing kind of way. There's nothing wrong with that, but that's not what we're talking about when we're talking about physical connection. So when I go to shake a man's hand and I really want him to feel that I respect him, I really want him to feel that he has my undivided attention. I want him to feel my physicality joining up with his physicality. Uh, I had this actually when we were working, doing our field work last uh Friday on Halloween. One of the guys in the group was there, and you know, he was a little bit uncertain about uh how to do some of the some of the physicality with the with uh with a woman. And so I I love to just demonstrate and role-play with it. So I took his hand, you know, and I I I pulled his hand together and I put my other hand on it and I held it for a minute. You know, and I and I said, you know, and I and then I said something like I would as a guy, you know, in in the particular scenario that he was talking about. And I took my hand away and I said, How did it feel just now when I held your hand? Like what was the feeling inside you? He said, I felt calm. I felt grounded. And I was like, that's exactly it. I'm not making a move on you. He he gave me the example of like rubbing a girl's back slightly, you know, patting it. And I was like, that's that's a little, that's not nearly as grounding as what I just did. And it was combined with eye contact, it was combined with slowing down the speech, it was showing presence, like like you said, you know, being present and your presence and being present, it shows all those things. That's the starting place is to realize my physical touch is a vehicle and a mechanism for connection. Am I creating that connection with another man? Does that man feel honored, seen, strong, like he's my brother, like we care about each other? Not just that we're bros slapping each other during a football game, but like, does he see that I'm actually with him in this moment? That is the kind of that's the kind of presence you want to practice with your physicality with other men.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and and I wanted to add this all that feeling that they get from you all stems from you having, and we say it every week, right? And we're probably gonna hear this from us guys every single week. You being are you already having that, already having that feeling in yourself and being present in that in in your masculinity already? And that's gonna translate. It's not gonna, it's gonna be a less, yeah. There's some tips like I talked about, like putting the hand under when you're shaking and the and the firmness of the shake, and how many times you go up and down, and how you like how you release, like there's all those skills, but really what it's gonna come down to is the energy like you described that that you're conveying to them. Is it does it feel grounded? Does it feel safe? Does it with a woman, right? Does it feel safe? Does it uh secure, etc.? And that's gonna be different with different people, but it's gonna come from the energy that you're bringing to the situation and and to being present.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. I I would even say, why am I shaking this man's hand? If there's if you can't answer that question, you're not being very present and you're not being very purposeful in your physical touch. You know, even in a business context, I'm shaking this man because I want his respect and I want him to know that he has mine. That's why I'm doing this. And I'm going to convey that in on my face with you know nonverbal cues that I'm giving in my body language, and I'm going to convey it with my physical touch. And the and the reason we start this with men is because it's safe with men. I don't have to worry about another man feeling terribly overpowered by me or threatened or whatever, on average, generally speaking. I don't really have to worry about this with other men. So it is a safe place for me to develop these skills and this sensitivity with myself. I can practice being present. And then I can translate it into being physical with women. Women are going to be much more sensitive. Women are going to much easy, it'll be much easier for a woman to feel threatened, to feel like, why is this man touching me? What is the context? So it's so it really helps to essentially rehearse this, get comfortable with it with other men where it's basically 99% safe. And then you transfer over the same sort of intentionality, the same non-sexualized communication. And again, what I'm expressing is I feel physically certain and safe in myself and in my body. I am extending this out and sharing it with this other person. I was doing it with men. Now I'm going to do it with women as well. And I find, you know, it's perfectly fine that that scenario in the coffee shop when the guy says it, you know, and we'll be kidding around, we switch sides, you know, and I'll, you know, and I'll make a physical connection with his wife. There's no issue. There's no problem there because we're not doing this to come onto each other. We're doing this to establish that we're on the same team. Yeah. These are all skills that you want to practice before you get into a date scenario where there is the romantic question. Because you want to show the woman, hey, I'm actually quite comfortable with myself physically. I'm comfortable with connecting with the world physically. And that's the foot I'm starting out on. You know, when when you see each other and you have that first hug, yeah, awkward. Do we do it? Do we not? You know, how do we shake hands? Do we, you know, I'm I'm I'm gonna make room for her here, I need to guide her. She she's feeling just as awkward as you are most of the time when it comes to what do how do I orient myself physically in the world.
SPEAKER_00:Right.
SPEAKER_03:The more you can show up really physically grounded in yourself, completely present, and you're able to show why you're doing the physical gestures that you are. When you put your hand on her back and you lead her off to the side because we are in the way, waiting for our coffee to show up, and you just move her out of the way to make everything function better. You're not making a move on her. You're not, you're not trying to get physical because you're attracted to her. You're demonstrating what everybody experiences in your presence as a man. That is the starting place for being physical with a woman.
SPEAKER_01:Right. So let's talk about some of those things because you mentioned making a physical connection with the the guy's wife or the the girlfriend too. A lot of this stuff translates across the board and and what you just described in showing up in the world and feeling comfortable in your physicality, in your body, and and and being able to navigate that on a on a daily basis. And so some of those things I described a little bit earlier is is with with with with guys like you said, the the tap on the shoulder, or sometimes it's like the the the tap on the upper arm of uh you know, like a slap on the arm, or like, hey, yeah. Or yeah, uh so I hug, like I hug my my guy friends, I hug my daughters, I hug, like I hug everybody. So I'm I'm usually like, and I'm six too, so I'm pretty pretty big, but I'm also cognizant of like some people that that don't want to do that. So so kind of walk us through some of the the things. The other the other one that's that I feel like that I've worked on a lot is the like if you're joking or if you're animated in something and touching somebody's hand or arm when you do that, or like when you want to make a point, like if you're making a point and you like that that kind of anchors a point with somebody, especially if you're in a an intimate conversation or at least uh an exclusive conversation with somebody, whether it's sitting and standing, and if you're making a point and you maybe reach out to touch their hand or their arm or something like that to like really anchor in what you're saying and while you're making the eye contact, which is important because if you're doing that and you're looking around, that obviously is not that's just like that's disjointed. You're you're looking at somebody else and you're touching them and making an ad. Yeah, that would be weird, right? But you're you're making eye eye contact, you're you're you know, touching them to kind of anchor the the the point or the conversation or or emphasize the conversation you have. Let's talk a little bit about that, how you can do that with men, women, but then it it carries over into, like you said, showing up in that. Now, it let's make a distinction too while we're talking about this, uh, because I think it's important. When we're maybe having a conversation with one of our buddies and doing that, it's it's gonna connotate something different than if we're doing that on a date, right? And and and you've got to understand the mindset. You talked about women when they show up, there's there's a level of vulnerability just showing up to a date that that a woman that a woman is expressing and experiencing, right? And and so you you've got to understand that in in your physicality there, it needs to convey something different, like like safety and security uh and protection, rather than when you're doing some of these same things, which it's there's the same skills, right? Well, if you're doing with your buddy, you're maybe trying to make a point or emphasizing or or or being lighthearted or something, something like that. So, okay, I just gave you like about 30 minutes worth of con of stuff to talk about there. So get it done in 15 with your magic, like you usually do.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, thank you. Yeah, and we always go over, so try to try to compare. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So right. Okay, so I think you you definitely hit the nail on the head. Women experience more vulnerability in life than men do. On average, they just they they have more to to watch out for when that when that happens. So when we are physical with a woman, particularly one that we don't know, the main, the main meaning, the main message that we're trying to convey in physical touch is you are safe when you're around me. I and the way we convey that to her is we have to have that in ours in ourselves. I as a man have to feel I have safety inside of me. The the the phrase that I use with my clients is you're trying to reach a place of physical and emotional certainty within yourself as a man. If I feel physically certain and if I feel emotionally certain in myself, that is what I'm sharing with someone around me. If my touch is, if my touch with a woman on a first date is I'm reaching out and I and I'm doing it because I want us to feel safe, I want to feel like, you know, that this is okay, what's going on, this this is, you know, it's a we thing. That's not I I haven't established physical and emotional certainty. I'm not grounded in myself the way I need to. I need to walk in the room fully grounded, and then I'm extending that. Like, like, like I don't know, like in Star Trek, you extend the shields from your ship around the other ship. And it creates this feeling of ah, okay, this this vessel is is safe in itself, and it's extending a shield around this other one. But she doesn't want to feel like you have to be doing that in order to in order for you to feel okay and safe on the date. She wants to feel that this is, again, an invitation. You can have my protection, young lady, if you want it. It's here for the offering and it's quite attractive, but you don't have to. It's it's just an invitation for you to be in that presence. And she might not be comfortable with that yet. She might she might recoil and pull away. Let her. If she doesn't want, if she is not comfortable with a hug, you need to be physically and emotionally certain and grounded enough in yourself to be able to accept that. And if and you have to just see how that plays out over time. Coming back again to the to the sensitivity that that women experience and how to do it.
SPEAKER_01:Can I let me stop you real quick? I'm gonna add another thing in here because because I think this is really important, which is uh another challenge I find in society with men knowing what what that like what you're just describing, their your ability to make somebody feel safe has to come from you knowing what you what you are capable of physically. And I think that's part of the challenge we've that we're having with young men these days. I think it's a little less with maybe our age men who who grew up uh like tackling each other on the playground and and and and getting in fights off you know on the playground and then you know wherever else, et cetera, when it was more socially acceptable for that stuff to happen because that was just kind of how how things happened. And and Warren Farrell talks about this in his book called The Boy Crisis, that that that it's been it's it's been difficult now for men to really understand their, you know, if you understand how dangerous you possibly are because you've engaged with another man that is dangerous also, and and and you've tested those boundaries, you then can understand how a better understand, you can never understand how a woman feels, but you can better understand how you can create that that safety net and that that safe feeling for them. So so I I I add that in there to just give the guys a tip around if you haven't experienced this physically, maybe you need to do some work on that. And and that work can be different for different guys. Some is just going out and playing a physical sport, some it might you know just be uh getting into your your your body and doing really hard workouts or something, but learn learn where you gauge your physicality and and how powerful you can be and and really dangerous we can be as uh as men at times, so that you then have like some benchmark, right, to to be able to bring that to the situation. So I just wanted to interject that. I think that's really important because I run into a lot of guys that that just haven't done that and haven't really gotten into their bodies or tested that physicality. So that's yeah, thank you.
SPEAKER_03:That that's that's completely completely spot on. And the only way to really incorporate it into yourself is through a physicality. You tackling other guys, you know, having tested your physical limits, having discovered that masculine energy does innately have a very dangerous component to it, that has to be lived. It has to be felt. You can't just think it. You have to go through one of those, you know, boot camp warrior weekend type things to find out what your limits are. This goes back to Hunter-Gatherer days. Boys, the initiation into manhood was scary. Boys would be taken away from their mothers, put out in the wild with grown men around, so it is somewhat supervised, but they're put into dangerous and frightening, scary uh situations because we have to face that as young men to then grow up into more fully developed men. And that is part of the physical certainty, that what I'm calling physical certainty, that physical assuredness you have in yourself. Now, I'm gonna pair that again with emotional certainty. I can have that physically, and maybe, you know, older generations, you know, they might be very physically certain. A lot of them, though, are not emotionally certain of themselves. True. Younger generations maybe have more emotional certainty and less of the physical certainty. Everybody's gonna come at this from a different background, they're gonna have a different blend. It doesn't matter. Physical and emotional certainty are the key ingredients of making you feel attractive when you're on a date and in the world at large. And I'm gonna say this isn't something that you work on once and then you're kind of and then you're you're done with it or you have to do some maintenance work. But I would say I will from myself, 90% of the work I do in creating physical and emotional certainty is with myself. And of that 90%, most of it's before I ever interact with another person. I spend most of the day working, I mean digging, facing myself to get to a place where I have the the deep rooted, solid, concrete block, physical and emotional certainty, so that I simply experience deep calm within myself.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And when you bring that so, and but I I do also want to add the caveat in there to the dads listening because you're a pro, you do this every day, and you're really good at it, and you make it look very, very easy. That's a lot that is and which is which is great. The dads out there, you know, they're working all day long, and then they're coming home and taking care of the kids, and they got to pay the bills, and then they got maybe an access hassling them or whatever. I we understand that this isn't something you know we that that we that we expect you to just sit down then and carve out study time for hours a day and become Zen master in that. It it could be as simply as simple as making sure that you're involved in some sort of men's group, having men's time with guys, doing something with the guys, and then just being conscientious about what we're talking about here, and then maybe taking a skill like like like embracing your your buddy or the shoulder slap or making a point and and and and and touching his arm or his a shoulder or something like that, and and then just working on getting comfortable with that. It can be as simple, it can be as simple as that. We I feel sometimes Dallas, we come, we talk about a lot of this stuff, and and we know it sometimes, and and and we've done the work, but like the guys listening are going, Jesus, are you shitting me? Because I got all this stuff, and you want me to focus on this skill and that skill and being emotionally ready, and that's like holy crap.
SPEAKER_03:Like okay, let me okay, let me let me let me get more illustrative about my personal practice. Okay, very little of what I'm talking about in striving for physical and emotional certainty in myself comes from me taking time out in my day to be mindful. Yeah, I do have a meditation practice, but that is not where most of this is done. Because in those moments, it's actually not where I'm being tested the most. It's it's throughout the day when I'm trying to respond to emails, I'm in meetings, I'm at a networking event, I'm recording on camera, I'm coaching men, I'm working with groups, I'm working with contractors, I'm I'm I have busy, busy days where I have lots going on, even though I don't have kids. It's throughout the day that my feelings of uncertainty, of insecurity come up. It's in the middle of the challenge. And it's in the middle of the challenge that I have to I choose on one level, okay, I'm dealing with this contractor, but on the other level, inside of myself, I am asking myself, Dallas, how do you reorient yourself in this moment to create more physical and emotional certainty for myself and for the person that I'm working with? So this isn't this this is something that's going on in parallel with all the other responsibilities, all the other activities in life. But and what it really boils down to is this is a guiding star. It's a north star that I'm going to. I want to choose orientations inside of myself that lead me to a more grounded place.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:I do not take half the day out to, you know, go to my special retreat temple and, you know, and and like do all of this. This happens when the rubber meets the road because you know what? That's when we get sick. Scared. That's when we have live wires that we have to deal with. And when you're on a date, you're going to have the same challenges come up. And that's where you have to be looking for these deep-rooted certainties within yourself. You have to find it in the live action, when it's when the when the juice is running through the wires.
SPEAKER_01:Right. Well, and you let's be clear, you are a guru. You don't spend your day in meditation and doing all that. But uh, and and I didn't and I didn't mean to to insinuate that either. But I think so so maybe we can sum that part up as if there's if you experience, if you have feelings come up around that, whether it's you experience another masculine man that does that, and you're like, oh, that was that's interesting, or like you're attracted to that, right? I think that's the big one. You see a guy that's masterful at this, and you're like, oh, you we talk about Brad Pitt all the time, right? But we're like, oh man, like that's like he's like he's cool. Like I'd like to get a hug from Bradley.
SPEAKER_03:Oh my gosh, one of the best highlights of my life.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, exactly, exactly. So so be be aware. Maybe we can just say be aware whether that's like a like a positive feeling towards that or a discomfort around it, and like, oh man, I'm I'm not feeling comfortable in in how how it's happening or how I'm showing up. Also, to just be aware and then just do some reflection on it and then take what we're going to talk about now, which is those those skills of of how to do it, in in incorporate that in your daily life.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, yeah. Okay, yeah, that's awesome. Um, I do, I know we always go way over, and right now we've gone into how to ground yourself as a man.
SPEAKER_01:We've just physically without worrying about going over because this is important. It's honestly I Dale, so I talk about all the time. Nobody talks about this stuff. And if you didn't have a a male role model that's that really either just modeled it for you, or or even better yet, modeled it and talked to you about it and guided you through it. None of us know any of this, this, this stuff. And I wish I had somebody talking, I wish I had somebody, something like this to listen to, which is why you and I love to do this, to listen to, to really try to get an understanding of it. And so it's it's important stuff and it's and it's really good stuff. So yeah. So yeah, we'll just keep doing it. We'll just keep talking about it.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:In a in another episode, I would love to revisit what you said about asking yourself how it feels to receive this from another man, because that's actually at the very heart and really uh my story of how I became a dating and relationship coach. It brings it comes into that. But we will say that for another episode of you know how that came into play. But let's get back to the more important and fun topic of how you go from a grounded place where all touch is neutral into the romantic side. Because I think that's what the guys definitely want to hear about is how do you how do you then take that into that place? Do you want to jump in with your take on that before we well?
SPEAKER_01:So, like I said, it it tr it transcends whether it's whether it's touching another man or a woman. The difference for me is the the context in which you're doing it and and the mindset that you're having around it and what you're trying to accomplish by it. So for me, if if I'm on a date and things are just flowing and we're having a really great conversation, it's pretty easy for me to uh to to be uh laughing about something and touch her hand or just making a point and touch her forearm or her forearm or her elbow or or something like that. It's real easy if we're walking through somewhere. I mean, this is just from being, I don't know that I ever even learned this. It's just my my masculine nature of protection. Maybe it's having daughters, but like wanting to move her away from something that might be harmful to to her, and you know, doing that with a touch on the small of her back, right? Not the not their lower back, not her butt, like, and then not taking her by the shoulders and maneuvering her around. Like it's just a just a touch and a guide with your with your hands. So, so but the the the underlying context is is safety, is security, feeling protected, and and and that's the real difference in in how I'm approaching it, especially if I'm on a on a date with somebody who's a romantic interest. Now, I think that's another distinction also that we can make. This like this mindset is I don't want to say should, but will probably when you get comfortable with it with with women, whether it's a romantic interest or your daughters or just a mutual friend, is gonna be pr very much the same until you want to cross that romantic barrier. And I'll let it let you take it from there.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. So I I agree, have establishing physical touch in a safety, reassuring sense, that's the place to start. And you practice it with everybody, you practice it on the date, as you would with people that you're not on a date with, because you want that woman to feel like she is in a larger, safe world with you. Great.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Okay, now I'm attracted to her and I don't want her to only feel safe with me. I want her to feel aroused. I want her to feel I'm aroused. And the word is arousal. You know, this is this is where attraction comes into play. Butterflies, you know, start coming out. And women want us to be aroused. They want us to be turned on, they want us to be attracted to them. And we want them to be attracted and turned on when they're around us. And this is a very, a very different kind of touch. It's it's still connected, it's still safe, but it extends into an area where the intent is arousal. And you want to be very clear with yourself that I am I'm not trying to sneak in, kind of a little bit of like a grab on the butt or maybe a brush against the boob or something mixed in with feeling safe. That's creepy. And creepiness, the nature of creepiness is you are concealing your intentions and hoping nobody notices. It's creepy.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, that's great.
SPEAKER_03:Say that again. Creepiness is where you're concealing your intentions and hoping nobody notices. And people who feel that somebody's being creepy, it's because he's not being forthright and upfront about the fact that he's asking her out. He wants her number. When I'm like, hey, I came over here to talk to you because you're gorgeous and I would love to take you out. I I might not be the most charming guy in the world if I say that, but there's no way that I'm seen as creepy because I'm being transparent. I'm I'm not concealing anything. Okay, so we have touch that's very safe. We don't want to somehow just kind of sneak in. I know that was the old the old stereotype is like you're at the movie theater, you yawn. Oh, you put your arm around her. Okay, if you're doing it in a cheesy way and you're laughing at yourself, that's fine. Laughing at yourself is a way of saying, we both know what I'm doing, and it's ridiculous. No, that's transparent. That's being obvious. A more or a less cheesy way to to breach that uh barrier from safe touch to touch that involves arousal or has the intent of arousal, is to essentially it's it's a it it's a smirk. You you don't have to actually have a smirk on your face, but a smirk is I'm desiring something and I'm holding it inside, and we both know what we want to happen, and I'm exercising discipline, and that's creating this tension, but you can tell what I'm after here. That that should that should prelude, that should be what you begin with, is for her to see your intention is arousal, your intention is affectionate in a romantic way, your intention is intimate. And you want to give her the chance to see that you're you've gone from checking her out and going, okay, the vibe's all right, we feel good, you're not crazy, I'm, you know, this is all good, to I want to make a move on you. Now notice I'm not saying, is it okay if I make a move on you? If that's the first thing, if that's the first question in my mind, I'm not connected with myself properly. Right. Me saying to myself, I want to make a move on her, I want to make a move on you. I know this in myself. I'm gonna come back to. I have physical and emotional certainty in myself that I want to make a move on you. Okay, that's hot for a woman. I'm I'm not laying that on her, I just know that about myself. And she can decide whether to say yes or no to that desire and that invitation. That that is the starting place, is for me to not ask myself, is it okay for me to want to make a move on her? And definitely not for me to ask her, is it okay if we? No, that's not hot. That's that's being a little boy, that's being needy, that's asking her for permission. You grant yourself permission and say, yes, it's okay to have the desires that you have. And you're expressing that in a smirk. You know, you probably have a little bit of flirting, you have something else. You can you can say things in words, you know, like, I don't know, like one of the things off the top of your head is, you know, it's like, oh, well, yeah, well, we'll get back to that later when I, you know, when I'm kissing you, you know, in the parking lot. And you know, you're you're you're throwing it way out there in the future. She has plenty of time to say no, and she knows it's not happening right now. Um, another one that that I feel is good, you know, this is a line that that I feel is rather effective is you're a little too far away right now. I want her to be closer to me in proximity. Me saying you're too far away, that has nothing to do with safety. That has to do with I want you closer to me. If she's in a chair, if she's on the other side of the table, you can't do this. But like let's say you're at a bar and you're next to each other, I will physically, if I can do it safely, physically take the chair. And all I'm looking for is not no. If she's leaning back, if she's saying no, if she's putting up barriers, okay, clearly I shouldn't do it. If it's yes to neutral, I'm just gonna go ahead and if I can safely grab her chair, pull the bar stool over closer to me. Usually women love that because I'm now demonstrating that I'm doing it. I didn't even touch her directly, but her entire body got shifted by my desire.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And that that's a way of stepping into it.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, well, let's talk about some of these non-verbal cues also that we can pick up on before you know before trying to to to move it to romantic physicality, which is some of testing some of those boundaries of of of touch and seeing how she reacts. Like, is she comfortable when you touch her hand and you're you're making a joke or you're her elbow, or her, or is she is she pulling back? Is she moving? Is she shifting her body? Is her is her posture uh away from you as opposed to direct? Is she making eye contact? These are all things that that you need to pay attention to because that's gonna that's gonna help to move you towards this next step, which is is what you are describing. When she when you do pull in, is she like laugh? And this is you know, you you're gonna know when she pulls you, she's gonna laugh and be like, oh, that's hot. Like he's strong and he's yeah, pulling me closer. And he's you know, you're not doing it, you're not doing anything other than shifting physical proximity, right? And it's and it's not it's not creepy, right? So, or the conversation of what you're talking about, having some fun, witty banter uh uh around something like, yeah, when when you know, when you're making out, or you know, if I have to keep you from kissing me later, or something, yeah, you know, whatever, whatever you might be be saying, what's the reaction you're you're you're getting? Is she playing along with it or is she just like not? And if she's not, then then we get into this whole consent, non-consent thing, which you know we gotta talk about because it's out there and and there's some some really, really like off the the the charts people with with this that literally wants you to sign a form and you know go through like a stamping ceremony and of there's consent. And it's and it's just ridiculous because you should know and you should understand whether or not consent is happening in the moment. And this I think goes back again to this to this whole boy crisis and the when our inability, many of our inabilities. Well, our inability is one to teach boys this, but to have taught and and made women feel comfortable in just having that consent happen naturally, which is the sexiest, hottest way in which we connect with with each other. So let's talk, let's just get it out of the way and talk about it.
SPEAKER_03:There's a there's a whole lot, there's a whole lot there. Yeah, I yeah, I always find that the best way to avoid this is just have a notary public on speed dial. You know, and you know, and if they're willing to be in the room while having sex, then that's the safest possible. Yeah, right. What better way to kill a mood than that? Right. This is after the the woman that you meet with.
SPEAKER_01:So here's what I have to say. And you go and you in in attorney style, you've you've got the attorney with 20 questions, you pass the quiz, and then you got the consent form, and you've got the notary there. Like that's the yeah. Some yeah, anyway.
SPEAKER_03:It's official. File, yeah, file it with the county so that yeah, it's on record in public in a public market. Yeah, yeah. Um okay, so the these are these are issues that are important. Okay, if you're in doubt of whether or not this woman is in the mood, it go work wait until you know that she's in the mood. So a lot of guys, that this is kind of sad, but a lot of guys, the bar that they're shooting for is consent. Yeah you know, a lot of men are looking for women that say yes to it, or they're saying, okay, or I I agree to having sex with you. Unfortunately, this is the bar and the target for a lot of guys. I I say this to my clients all the time consent is a really low bar. The reason it's a low bar is because the quality of sex when all you have is consent is kind of crappy. What you want is desire from the woman. You have desire on your end, and you don't want her saying, okay, yes, I give you permission to exercise your desire with my body. Lame, really lame sex. What you want is, first of all, to present your desire as desire. Again, you know, the smirk that we're talking about, the energy, I'm not hiding it, which makes it not creepy. And when you show and you share and you flex your desire and you continue to maintain responsibility for it, that's hot. You have to hold that long enough and you have to present it and package it and deliver it in ways that are effective enough that the woman then in return has desire coming up inside of her. On average, it's going to take longer for her desire to come up than yours as a man. That's just women warm up longer, but they retain the heat longer. That's that's just how it works. But what you want to be shooting for to avoid any technical complications of, oh, was there consent or not? Guys, alcohol, it lowers inhibitions and it maybe makes things easier. But to your point, in today's world, it makes it really complicated. Drugs, same thing. Makes things a lot more complicated. You don't want to be branded with any of these things. You you and you don't want to be to be setting the bar at simply consent. Desire from the woman. The woman's like, hell yes, I want you to take me back to your place. That's what you're looking for. That both people are ready. And it and if that and if you're not there yet, guys, you're not gonna have good sex yet. You're not. If what you're looking for is just sex, can can I add that takes connection, right?
SPEAKER_01:So it's not it's it's if you're looking for consent, that's wrong. If you're looking for connection, then you're on the right track. So if you're if you're connecting with her in in in a way that's much it that's tapping into her desire, then you're on the right track. And then you can start to to to test these. The the the consent part is really just feedback for her desires, the way that I look at it, right? So if you're you're you're you're testing, I feel like, and and tell me what you think about this, Della, is it you're you're testing your connection through through these these small little consensual interactions that you're having with her at whatever at every given point. And that that that starts maybe with with with when you meet her the first time and does she hug you and is she open to that? Does she shake your hand? And then in the conversation as well, and then as you as you described, in doing little things and expressing your desire, moving her closer to you, moving her through a crowd or or something like that. Like, is she reacting positively to each of those each of those things? And then when you're you're getting to the point where you want to you might want to to kiss her and and and you'll go to that that next level, then is she leaning into you when you hug her good uh goodbye, maybe uh the day prior, or when you see her when you show up for that day, or she's still not quite there when she sits down, is she sitting by you, is she engaged with you, etc. Like those are those little consensual things that you're looking for that's building connection, and then you can take that to that next, and then and then it's just kind of natural. Then you know that she wants to kiss you, right? And then maybe there's some tricks around how you go in to do that without it being like, Can I kiss you? Which is just ridiculous.
SPEAKER_03:Well, yeah, yeah, a lot there. Um, I was laughing because of uh the movie Hitch. People bring it up all the time when I'm talking to him about it. And there's that scene where when Will Smith is the dating coach, Hitch, you know, and he tells him you lean in 90%. And the guy, you know, his his guy, his protege, is like leaning in, leaning in, and you know, and then he and and they're holding it, and there's a moment of tension, and then he goes the last 10% and kisses Will Smith, and Will Smith freaks out, and he says, I said 90%, not 100%. And but but there is that is again when I'm leaning in and I'm about to kiss her, but I don't, and I'm holding it and I'm waiting to see how does she respond to that? This is all about the woman's response. Is she leaning in? Is she leaning away, or is she being some sort of ice queen, steadfastly in the middle, not reacting, which is sort of its own category of what to do with it. You don't have to ask verbally. You can ask with your body language. When you're leaning in and getting closer, does she lean towards you or does she lean away from you? And that's basically all you're looking for in all of these interactions. Is she leaning into what you're doing, or is she leaning away from what you're doing? All the body language cues, all the verbal cues, all of the playfulness and the flirting, it can be boiled down to is she leaning in, which is a yes, or is she leaning back, which is a slow down or stop? And basically, what those two are is they are encouraging me to continue what I'm doing, or discourage me from what I'm doing. A lot of women are not that aware that they have that much power over men in how they respond to what we're doing. But the base basically, if you're wondering, you know, does this woman like what I'm doing? Just ask yourself, is her response to what I'm doing encouraging me, or is her response to what I'm doing trying to cool the jets and discourage me? That's all you need to really know. Because if it if you're being encouraged, go ahead and show a little more. Go ahead and flex a little more of your desire. Go ahead and lean a little further out there and see if she continues to encourage you by leaning back in towards you. There's there are endless amounts of body language, verbal tech, verbal stuff, cues. There's all kinds of stuff. One great book, I'm just going to throw it out there, uh, Vanessa Van Edwards. She is a body language expert. I maybe I've mentioned on the podcast before. Uh her latest book, Cues, breaks this down into so many small levels. And it doesn't matter how good you are at body language, there's always going to be more that you can that you can see and understand. She's amazing. I've listened to her on podcast. She's really wonderful live. If you're looking for specific cues, and the cues are basically, I'm closing off, I'm I'm shutting down, I'm not feeling that safe, I'm I'm not feeling that encouraged, I'm I'm feeling, you know, like I need to kind of keep to myself, versus, you know, encouraging cues are ones that are more open, more exposing yourself, more inviting, more saying, I want more of you in the me space. This is you know, but they basically fall into one of two categories. And you just have to ask yourself, is this encouraging or discouraging behavior from the woman?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, she is amazing, and she talks about all of how we're kind of messed up, I don't want to say messed up, but confused in society around that and and how you can make that make that better. Other thing I wanted to add is you you talk about expressing your desires. You can do that verbally also. So it while you're using the and I feel I feel like that's even that's even sexier and and more fun and can give you some feedback as well. And and and instead of it being questions while you're leaning in, it can be it can be statements, like statements of your desire. I've been wanting to kiss you all night as you lean as you lean in. And you know, does she laugh and lean back in? Does she like grab your head and start making out with you because she's been wanting to also like you know, that that can be that can be helpful too. So if you're again, if you're being upfront and and about what you're doing, what you're desire, guys. Let's just lay it out there. There's nothing wrong with desiring women. Like we are designed to desire women, and women uh want to be desired, right? Yes, they don't want to be, they don't, you know, let's let's let's become clear. They don't want to be consumed, right? But they want to be, and that's your word, right? Like, yeah, yeah. Like you don't we're not out there to consume, right? We're out there to to to connect, desire, like that's mutually beneficial. And that comes back to your to your mindset, and expressing that stuff is perfectly okay, guys. Like that there's there's there's we should also there should be talks or studies about the the verbal communication around that too, because why not? Why not talk about how much you desire somebody, how much you like, what they look like, or how they smell, or their voice, like all this stuff that I think that's that's gone away with poetry and and some of the uh some of the the old arts around romance, if if you will, that we've kind of lost, and now we're on, you know, let me drop into your DMs, like what the hell is that? How about you write her like a little poetic note and leave it in leave it in her pocket or something like that? That that's creating a desire, opening up a desire. It's communicating your desire, and that's sexy as hell. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And communicating your desire is being vulnerable. When I am sharing with her what my desire is, I'm being vulnerable. And again, women experience tons of vulnerability. I feel, and I have seen very consistently that it is more effective for a man to balance the scales by going first in his vulnerability in the interaction. Sharing my desires for her, you know, boy, you know, if I say, you know, it's just I really want to touch your hair, I'm just sharing with her a desire that's inside of me. And a lot of times we're just like, well, I would love for you to touch my hair. You know, it's about time. We've been talking for an hour and a half. I would love for you to go into a more of a physical space. I I think I also want to lay down here it's very effective also to, I know you mentioned saying something and leaning in at the same time. There's nothing wrong with that. I also find it very effective, though, to break these pieces apart. So I'll say that like, I really want to touch your hair. It looks so beautiful. And I don't do anything. That creates tension, that creates anticipation. And she's like, well uh, and then it forces her almost to say and you know, meet that with desire of, well, I want you to touch my hair now. Similarly, you know, if I come, you know, and I do touch her hair, and then I come back 20 minutes later, there's a lull in the conversation. I don't say anything, and I'll just put my hand through her hair and I'll simply go back to it. I don't have to verbally say it. She knows what I'm coming back to. And in a lot of ways, not saying something makes the touch even more impactful. I I talk to guys, you know, when they're when they're meeting somebody, you know, and you know what their interests are and you're trying to plan dates and all this. I tell them, great, you've been given some ammunition. Don't shoot it all off at one go. Like you want to make every single round count, every one of them. You want you want to be strategic. You don't you don't want to blow everything that you have right up front. Say what the desire is and then wait. If I if I use everything at once, that doesn't that that first of all, I've run out of I've run out of material. I have to wait for more material to arrive. And and second of all, there's no room for generating a sense of anticipation, romance, mystery, and tension. This is one of the things about being physical that I can't believe we haven't said it here, and I'm sure we're coming up on an hour. Women, you know, what's the saying? Men need a place, women need a reason to have sex.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:For for men, it's it's fairly simple, but women, they need a reason. There, there needs to be a story, a drama, a tension. There needs to be some romance, there needs to be stuff around it. We have to break down what we're doing and leave room for that anticipation and that romance to be built. And when we do that, she's much more aroused and ready for the physical touch. If we take everything, package it, and deliver it all at once. Oh, you know, I just would love to kiss you, and then you lean in and kiss. I'm not saying that can't work, but it would be more effective to give her time to plant these little seeds, let them kind of take root and let them start doing things inside of her. That creates the arousal where she's again not just consenting and saying, Yes, you can kiss me. She's wanting and eager and hungry for you to kiss her. That's where we want to be as a man.
SPEAKER_01:Well, and it's like stoking a fire. And we've talked in the past about women are more like slow cookers, right? Like it's you're you're you're you're taking your time through this. And then, and to your point also, it's gonna take you some time to understand what what that desire, how to tap that desire, like stoking the fire. Like you don't stoke the fire the same way, like there's different conditions that are out there. Sometimes it's windy, you gotta you gotta build a shelter, like it might there's different ways that you're gonna stoke that fire, and that's only gonna take you looking for those little cues that are maybe she doesn't like her hair stroked, okay? Like, okay, so then you know, like that's not that's not the way there. So you're gonna you're gonna look for something else, and and then you're just building that slowly and surely, and then that's when it becomes really, really intense, and then you've you've you've created that tension, and then and then it just becomes really awesome.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and I think to your maybe what's also part of the point you're making is that every woman's going to respond to different invitations, they're gonna respond to different desires. Uh, don't assume you know that every woman is going to respond the same way, in the same timeline, in the same order. They're they're going to respond differently.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:So I think okay, make your yeah, go ahead. So one last thing I just want to come back to. So the word for this of moving from safe physical touch into arousal touch, romantic touch, affectionate touch, the the word is escalation. You're you're moving into higher energy levels. You're escalating the energy levels, you're getting closer and closer to taking clothes off. That's it's it's escalating things in a lot of ways. Men, you need to understand that somebody has to escalate. In a perfect world, the two of you are just over the moon, crazy about each other, and it just happens. And it's happened to all of us. It's amazing when it does. Not the case most of the time. Escalating is is a dangerous scale. Edgy activity to do. And it is totally on you as a man because it's sexy when men do it. It is expected. It's enjoyed. It is a good thing. It is positive to escalate. Which means you take it from just safe touch into arousal and you know and romantic and attraction touch. Escalating is good. Escalating is healthy. If you don't need to worry about anyone, you know, throwing a fit about the fact that you're escalating or inviting someone to escalate. You're on a flippin' date. Of course, that's part of it. This happens at a certain point. Don't try to escalate in the first 10 minutes. You know, wait and move it along. But don't wait for the escalation to happen on its own. There is no it to escalate. Somebody has to reach out and choose to escalate. Don't be afraid to do it as a man.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and I think the the the word is risk, right? It there's going to be a risk associated with it. And but there's going to be a risk associated with it all the way. So you're again, you're when you're at each each what each one of these different phases, if you if you will, is is an escalation, right? So and there's a risk associated, but you're looking for the feedback. And also don't if you don't get the the reaction that you were expecting, that's okay too, because that's it's not failure. So there's risk associated with this. And and and and and but don't look at it as a as a binary risk. Like I feel like oftentimes dad, not just dads, but guys get into oh, fail. That was a fail. Well, it's not a fail, it's feedback, right? So maybe the feedback is like you haven't stoked the fire, or you haven't found the right way to stoke the fire yet, or there's there's a conversation that needs to be had, or what whatever that might be, it's feedback, and that's just gonna help you to you know to know well, that wasn't a good one. I can check that off the list. Let's go to the next one and we'll see that. Or maybe I need to pull back and I need to cultivate this. I need to get a more of an accelerant to put on that fire, like whatever it is.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, she didn't like my invitation. You know, she either like didn't like the man, she didn't like what I was inviting her to, she didn't like the look, the feel, the smell, the the height, the weight, who knows, you know. She right, but you extend an invitation. If it's truly an invitation, that's open-ended. If it's truly an invitation, if it is not open-ended and you're hurt or you know, getting bent out of shape, that's not an invitation, dude. That's a request.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:You need to learn how to extend invitations, make them attractive. That'll increase, you know, the your you know, your positive response, right? Your desirable, you know, outcomes. It'll increase, you know, your your your turn, your the the ratio, you know, of of you know what your percentage of of good responses are. But you have to remember these are just invitations, and not every woman is available, not every woman is going to match with it. There it's it's going to be you know a small percentage. And by small I mean definitely under 50%. That's normal. That's fine. That's not a that's not a fail. That's part of how you do it. When you go out hunting, you you don't see a deer to shoot every hour. You know, that and like going out on dating, expecting every woman to say yes, is sort of like expecting a large game to appear, you know, like one an hour. Like I I've never been large game hunting, but I think you can go for days without seeing anything. It's that's that's the nature of it. That's that's simply the way that it works.
SPEAKER_01:Yep, absolutely. I'm actually heading out this week to to do to go on my large game hunting. And yes, it's been a couple of years actually since we've gotten an animal. So so so yeah, that's that's a perfect, perfect analogy. I think to end on, I I I feel like we can end here, and this is a good spot before we talk about uh intimate like sexual intimacy with somebody and how to introduce that because I feel like that's a whole maybe I had it on my list to talk about, but as usual, we we got into nuance and some of the really, really important stuff that that I think that was really was really good. So we can we can save that next step for a whole episode in and of its uh self and and talk about how to to to then go to that next level with with somebody as well. So Dallas, it was that was awesome. Where can where can the guys connect with you?
SPEAKER_03:Jump on over to blackboxdating.com. You can check out the men's coaching program that we have there to see all the details. Once a month we uh we do field work live in the field, which is something that all the guys really enjoy. Feel free to come and join us. We're there's a two-week free trial, so just start it right before then, and you can uh come on out with us and uh meet in person. Same to you, Jude. How can you guys uh follow up and get more of your your divorce wisdom?
SPEAKER_01:Well, and before I before I give them that, I do want to point out the fieldwork stuff that you do is awesome. We're talking about uh also doing some some stuff as well that's uh that's live and in and in person uh as well. And maybe we talk about what's what we what we mentioned a little bit earlier and and doing stuff where where guys start to to get used to their physicality and and how to do that sometime in the future as as well. I know it's something like if you guys want to jump on that right away, get involved, like fully involved in Dallas' community because they're doing that on a on a regular basis and talking about that stuff. And then, man, you've got the you've got the master guru here that's you know standing there holding your hand while you're doing it in the field. Like that's why you know I'm going big hunt, big, big game hunting. There's a difference. Like, if you go somewhere and you find a guide that's local to the area, you have a much higher probability of having success, right? That's not what that's not what I'm doing. Like, I'm I'm out, I'm searching on my own, I'm figuring out my buddy. Like, we're doing that. But just know your probability of what your whatever your intention is, guys, increases if you get involved with a coach like Dallas, and then you immerse yourself in that with other guys that are going through it, you're gonna have success rates that that are exponentially higher than than just trying to figure it out on your own. So, and that's a plug for for coaching in general. And and and dads uh who are listening and are going through a divorce or post-divorce, the divorced advocates, what we've what we've what I've created and founded as as well to help you to understand dynamics not only around dating, but co-parenting, uh, dealing with your kiddos, dealing with all the the complex that the complexity of uh of life post-divorce. And you can check that out at thedivorced advocate.com. So, Dallas, man, always a pleasure. Lots of pearls. I appreciate it. Have a terrific week, and uh, we'll pick this up again next week. Thank you, Jude. Yeah, see you next week.
Podcasts we love
Check out these other fine podcasts recommended by us, not an algorithm.
