.png)
Dads Dating After Divorce
Dating after divorce isn’t what it used to be—especially when you’re a dad. The rules have changed, the world has changed, and now you’ve got kids in the mix. Join Dallas and Jude as they share real-world strategies and insights from their work with dads and men at BlackBoxDating.com and TheDivorcedDadvocate.com.
Dads Dating After Divorce
24 - Who Pays on the First Date?
The first date “Who pays?” moment can tank chemistry or lift the whole night—and after divorce, the stakes feel even higher. We dig into the chivalry paradox: honoring equality while still creating romance, leading without controlling, and paying without turning the bill into a negotiation. Our goal is simple: help you build experiences that feel generous, safe, and fun, not transactional.
We start by rewriting the playbook around compliments and presence. Instead of focusing on looks, notice effort and choices—outfits, accessories, hair, even the care she puts into her space. That shift tells her you see the person, not just the packaging. From there, we lay out a clean framework for paying: if you invite, you lead, and you likely cover coffee or drinks. Keep it low‑pressure, signal surplus with “No big deal, I’ve got it,” and anchor the moment in the experience you’ve just shared. If she prefers to split early on, respect the boundary without getting prickly. Red flags like mooching or entitlement? Trust your gut and set a clear exit.
We also map the deeper dynamic: investing versus extracting. Money is only one resource. Attention, planning, appreciation, and emotional presence matter just as much. Look for signs that she contributes—offering to grab dessert, planning the next stop, expressing sincere thanks, or simply showing up engaged and put together. That’s how two people co‑create a vibe worth keeping. And remember, a woman’s independence is complete in one word—no. When you respect that without turning it into a power struggle, you demonstrate strength and safety.
If this helped reframe your first‑date playbook, follow the show, share it with a dad who’s back in the arena, and leave a quick rating or comment so more listeners can find us.
Hello, and welcome to Dad's Dating After Divorce, the only podcast addressing the wild and crazy environment of dating post-divorce. My name is Jude Sandball. I am the founder of The Divorced Dapvo Kit, and my co-host every week is Dallas Bluth, the founder of Black Box Dating. Dallas, how are you doing today?
SPEAKER_00:Doing fabulous, Jude. Happy to be uh entering into the holiday season here. Thanksgiving's tomorrow. Love this time of year.
SPEAKER_02:Oh man, it is my favorite. Thanksgiving is one of my favorites as well. I'm gonna have like 20, 30 people tomorrow. Let's see where, yeah, tomorrow we're recording the day before. So gearing up, but but am excited to talk about our topic today, which is basically what is that first date rule of who pays on the date? Right. And and I'll tell you the origin is my daughters and I were having dinner last night, and they're 15 and 17, and we were talking around this a little bit. My my youngest had an experience at early earlier in the year where she went to one of the dances and the guy didn't pay it. She was all upset. And and and and so just we were talking about it last night, and they asked me, Well, Dad, do you do you always pay when you go on the date? And so we kind of got into this discussion with the 15 and 17-year-old. And then I was I was thinking, wow, this would be a really great one for for me to hear what Dallas has to say. Because it's Dallas is enlightened, Dallas deals with this all the time. And and so, you know, it's as dads, it's kind of a whole different ballgame now. We're we're we're dating post-divorce. Once upon a time, I think it was probably pretty caught and dry that you you paid. The guy paid on the date, you asked her out and and and you paid. You know, now we've got you know, we've we've got a whole different dynamics. We've got this the whole equality thing, we've got some women, like there's lots of women I've been out on dates with make more money than than than than I do. And and and that's uh that's a reality too. And and then we've got other things like alimony and challenge support and all that stuff that that factor into our mentality around this, right? So leaky pipes that are draining the resources. Right, right. So so you know, we've got all that going on, but here's for me what the really confusing part is is despite all of what we just described and all of what some would say is progress, progress, right? Let's put it in in air quotes, because that could be that's subjective, right? That that word progress, the vast majority of dating expectations have not shifted that much when it comes to, especially like the the the first date. And so what I'm what I'm labeling this is the the chivalry paradox, right? The chivalry paradox. She wants to be treated as an equal, but she also wants to be courted. And like there's nothing that's gonna kill the the romance or the vibe faster during the courting process of pulling out your phone and you know calculating what's 50-50 on a on a date, right? So so let's let's talk. Is there is there a first date rule? Like what who should be like, how do we go about traversing this awkward weirdness?
SPEAKER_01:And maybe we can get into some details and I'll give you some some scenarios and maybe some some real life you know things that I've encountered too.
SPEAKER_00:Wow. Okay, I have I had like six different like places to start while listening to you introduce this topic, and I'm trying to remember what some of them are. Okay, let me answer real quick. You know, are there rules now? No, there are not. Okay. And and one of the one of the principles I tell all the guys and also the women that you know that I encounter is everybody comes to the table with their own rule book. And if you think or you assume that somebody else is playing out of the same rule book that you are, you're gonna get butthurt a lot. And that's on you. You cannot expect other people to be playing out of the same rule book as you. Our society is simply not that homogenous in its behavior anymore. You can't do that. Okay.
SPEAKER_01:This one gets very confused.
SPEAKER_00:You're yeah, you're gonna get confused, but you're also gonna get hurt because you're like, why did they misbehave? They didn't misbehave according to their own set of rules as far as how these things go. And when you realize that it's not personal, they're playing from a different rule book than you are. That that unhooks you from your own emotional reactions. And that is always where you want to be leading from as a man, is a non-reactive place where you have compassion and understanding that other people are coming from other places.
SPEAKER_02:Okay, but that's a really that's a really good point. Well, that's a really good point because the mindset that you go into the date with is going to set the tone for the entire relationship, really, if you want to look at it, look at it that way. So that's a that's a good point. Be in a good place, right? Don't get butthurt about anything. Yeah, try not to get butthurt about anything. I mean, yeah, is is to whatever extent you you can, but that's a really good point.
SPEAKER_00:Good. Okay, so I want to actually rewind all the way back to the story with your daughters. And you know, so she's 15. And I'm gonna say that I I mean, I I don't know, but I'm gonna guess that she was kind of bummed because the guy not paying, I'm gonna guess, made her feel less special. I'm just gonna guess that that at the core of it was probably part of what she felt. And we're talking about a 15-year-old girl here. So, like, we don't get any more young and progressive than you're still in high school, middle school. Like, that's about as young and progressive as it gets. And here was a girl who felt, not thought. This wasn't this, it doesn't sound to me like she's coming from a righteous place or that, you know, this is supposed to be like that, would express itself more like frustration or anger or something like that. Instead, it's like she was bummed, I'm gonna guess, because her date didn't make her feel as special as she wanted to feel. How, how, how on or off base am I with that?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, you're spot on because we we've and and this isn't the first time we had the discussion last night. She always brings up and laughs about the fact that she didn't, you know, she didn't order the fried rice, which was more expensive, right? And she would have if she knew she was paying herself. She's finding trying to be conscientious and nice and not and and and so and then so we laugh about like just get the fried rice, right? Don't worry about it. It's okay. But and and that's kind of the joke. But also in that she does talk about, she has talked about disappointment, right? Like, like feeling special disappointment, and and she's commented on other other ways in which he didn't throughout the date convey to her that she that that she felt you know that she was special and that that she looked nice, or that he was excited to be on a date where they're all you know, some of these things. And and granted, he's a teenage boy, so there's a ton of grace around that with him, because look, we're you know, decades down the road learning some of this stuff, and now trying to share what what little we do know with some of the other guys to help. But you're exactly spot on, which is you know, that that experience, that feeling that she wanted to have in the moment and at the at dinner and on a date when in the dance and and all that just did not did not transpire.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, like I'm sorry, my heart is going out to your daughter right now because Oh, it was so sad. Well, I mean, could because here's the thing. Like, okay, first of all, who is not who is not guiding this boy? Okay, like a lot of us like growing up, we we lacked guidance, we did. But somebody, somebody needs to step up and help guide this young man. Yes, we do cut slack for teenage boys, but then again, if you're dating a teenage girl, like they, you know, they they don't get nicer than than teenage, you know. It's like, you know, the teenage boy should be on point, you know, at least with some of the basics. Somebody should be clueing him in. We can't expect him to clue himself in, but yeah, older men, older men should be, and I mean his dad, you know, should be mentoring and helping him do it. Okay, but here's the part that like totally breaks my heart is your daughter was actually going above and beyond to be super conscientious by ordering the white rice rather than the brown rice, saving him a buck twenty-five or whatever. You know, but you know, and and like, and that is that is that really needs to be acknowledged. That really needs to be appreciated. And when he didn't pay for her, all of now I I know he didn't know she was making those choices, but let's let's unpack that for a minute. Okay. Men uh women put, I don't know, something like 10 times the amount of effort into their appearance on average than men do. Okay, so women show up on dates and they have made spent way more time grooming, cleaning, and and dressing themselves and putting together their outfit than men. On average, there is no doubt about this. For the most part, it goes unappreciated by men. Here, you know, your daughter's in a passive role, she's making choices about what she is or isn't going to eat to try to be conscientious and to make the experience nice for her date so he doesn't have to pay more. A lot of times, women are making these choices, they're doing these things to be accommodating, and they're not gonna tell us about it. They're not gonna go, hey, by the way, I spend 45 minutes, you know, shaving, waxing, putting on makeup, picking out the right dress and shoes. Like they're not gonna tell us that. They're just gonna do it. Okay, we need to assume that we need to show our appreciation right out the door for the effort that they made to be there. Let's also put into that the fact that women in general are across the board more vulnerable than men. Them coming to the table brings that vulnerability. We want to show an appreciation for it. Yeah. And so, yeah, all of that now.
SPEAKER_02:Well, and and and so let's let's talk about that because I this and we live in Colorado too, so kind of these these dressing norms and quaffing norms are a little bit different than maybe New York City or Los Angeles or or or or somewhere else. But I genuinely appreciate when a woman shows up and looks put together. That's the west that's the best way I can say it is put together. Like it doesn't have to be designer, whatever, but if she looks really good and she shows up and like it's just and and you can tell that she's taken, if she shows up in like sweats and her gym shoes and and and you know, a hat on or whatever, you can tell that there has not been an effort made. And I think that that is a real good gauge, like off the bat, as to the level of effort that somebody's gonna put into something. And now, you know, we're gonna go into maybe like coffee dates versus drinks versus dinner in you know, here in in in a little bit. So obviously that that depends upon what what you are doing and and how you are doing. But I really feel you can uh and and tell me if you if you feel so I when I see somebody immediately, I can tell effort, no effort. Yes, yeah, that's the word. I want to acknowledge it like, oh hey, I love that outfit. Or even or if it's a cool hat or whatever, or your hair is really neat, or that's a unique pendant, or or whatever. I want to acknowledge that if she does look, if she doesn't, then I don't say anything, or I might even give a little neg on something like, oh, yeah, you didn't get the the the the the the notice to actually get out of your pajamas, right?
SPEAKER_01:Or something, you know, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Yeah. I you know, you you mentioned different styles in different cities, you know, different areas. It I think it's completely true that, you know, we're at both in Colorado, it's a more relaxed, active lifestyle. But but you know, whether that's the style or you know, you're dressed up New York, you know, style or whatever it is, I'm gonna say these are on an X-axis, you know, they're sort of equal in, you know, what what works for the environment that you're in, what works for the particular occasion that you're in, is you're picking the appropriate style that matches. That's the x-axis. The y-axis is the effort axis. So how much effort did someone put into that particular style? You can still be dressed for a hike and look really good, or you can be looked like you're dressed for a hike and you know, you just rolled out of a U-Haul van, you know, that, you know, because somebody kidnapped you, you know, two weeks ago. Like you can, you can look very, you can have very different levels of effort that you're putting it out. And you nailed it when you said that what you want to talk about when you're making a woman feel special, when you're making her, when you're giving her a compliment, you want to compliment her effort. And I'm gonna put with that, you're gonna want to compliment her choices. We had one episode, I don't know if it was last week or the week before, that was about cold approach. One of the basic elements of cold approach, I've heard this from women. I just had a conversation the other day with yet another woman. She was talking about men approaching her in Walmart. And she was talking about how much, you know, these guys, you know, they're like, oh my gosh, you're so beautiful. Yeah. And and they'll come up to it. And I said, and I'm like, well, what would have worked? And I said, what if they complimented you on something more specific that was your choice that you had made in what you wear? And so you're complimenting the effort and the choice rather than the final result. And she said, Oh, yeah, that would have completely made me more comfortable and relaxed. Women want to be acknowledged and they want to feel special for the choices that they've made. By the way, guys, as another tip, when you eventually go back to that woman's apartment, that's like seeing her dressed up for the first time. You that that apartment, if it looks good, did not happen by accident. That woman has made dozens or hundreds of individual style and interior design choices. She has matched those colors, she has matched those textures, she has picked out those pillows. It does not look like the the inside of a magazine by accident. And all of that is deliberate effort. It's money that's being spent and choices that are being made. Acknowledge that. Help her see and feel special because you're seeing the person that actually made these choices. I know we're on a little bit of a tangent, but would you agree with that?
SPEAKER_02:No, no, I think that's really good. I think that's funny. We maybe we do a little whole episode on like, so you know, you don't want to just plop on on the couch when you get there. If you do something like look at things and ask about things and their apartment, and hey, tell me about this piece, or that's an interesting picture. What's the background of that? Like, that is really gonna set the mood in getting her to open up and feel comfortable and having you in in her space. But maybe, you know, that's a whole that's a whole nother conversation that we can have. But I think that's a that's a that's a great point. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I'd love to ask her. It's like, hey, can you help me pick out some furniture? You know, it's it shows that I really respect what she does and and that I and that I want to make the effort too, and I do make the effort, but that maybe her skill level is a little higher than mine. That is complimenting a woman. I'm not I'm not being self-deprecating when I say that because we can always do better, but I'm inviting her into my world, and it's a very indirect way of complimenting her on her on her style.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. All right. And let's can can I point out something else, and maybe you can expand on this a little bit, is and and then we'll get back onto the onto the who pays in the first date thing. But I think this is important information, is is you said complimenting something other than looks, which are something that is like there's not, we're born like we're kind of born like I got the receiving hell. There's not much I can and can't do with some of that stuff. But if you're complimenting on behavior and behavior specifically around choices and like the behavior, the the choices to really take the time to look good or or or go pick out a good outfit or have some, you know, or or or do your nails, like that's that's an effort, right? That's that is something that then they they have control of that you can recognize, right? Right.
SPEAKER_00:Yes. So basically, if you're talking about her genetics, she has no control over that. Right. And she gets complimented all the time. The problem is, as men, we are wired to look at the genetics. So we're talking about what comes first in our mind. Nothing wrong with that. But have that as an inside internal dialogue with yourself, going, boy, do I love her natural blonde hair and blue eyes. Okay, that's genetic, guys. There's there isn't you're not going to get very far by complimenting her out of the gate, by complimenting her on her natural blonde hair and blue eyes. Just not going to get you very far. You can recognize that to yourself, that you're attracted to that. You want to compliment her on what she has done with herself, the effort that she's made, the choices that she's made. One, I'm not going to take credit for this because I didn't come up with it, but it was a female dating coach that said when you want to approach someone in the street, talk about a woman in the street, talk about three things what she's wearing, what she's holding, or what she's doing. All of these things, what she's wearing, what she's holding, and what she's doing, reflect back to the person that she is and and choices that she's made, thing that she's doing with herself. We've all heard, you know, women say they want to be seen by a man and not just attracted to and objectified. What's beneath that, and this is coming back to my friend I was just having a discussion with about Walmart approach, cold approaches this weekend, is she feels pressured. She feels put on the spot if all she senses is his genetic attraction to her genetics.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:If that's all she senses, she's like, okay, well, what happens when my genetics aren't so great anymore and I'm getting older and I'm just I don't look the way you want. Are you just going to move on to the next most attractive genetic option? Right. Or are you attracted to the person? And do you even know the difference? Do you know the difference between the way that I just look naturally and how much of this was effort? Because that speaks to how much are you actually going to appreciate the effort that I put into this? Or how much of it are you just assume that I look this way, even though I do yoga four times a week and I spend all this time putting myself together. The woman wants to know that you're not just there because she looks attractive and you want to consume her. She wants to know that you have an appreciation and awareness, and that you're talking about the person that she is, which is her choices and her behavior, and not just the package that she's presenting. That's it's it's it's incredibly deep and difficult to pull those two apart, but women totally will respond differently to your cold approach. So yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Well, and that goes back to what we talked about in the the challenge we gave guys last week, which was warm interactions. Just learn to have warm interactions with people in general. And if you can carry that through to having warm interactions with a woman that you are attracted to, then that's gonna go a long way. So just put off the attraction, you don't have to put off the attraction, just know that you're attracted to her. But that's not what you're having the the interaction about. You're having a warm interaction with somebody that you are attracted to. So that's why the the the challenge we gave to the to the dads listening last week was learn to have warm interactions with everybody. And then when you meet somebody that you're attracted to, you're just naturally gonna have a warm interaction that's gonna lead to potentially having a date with with that person. So it becomes it becomes natural, right? A natural way for you to show up in the world. Yes, exactly. So all right, dude, we are so far off topics. Let's get back to that playbook, right? Yeah, well, you know, we get off on tangents, but they're really important tangents, I I feel. So I I'm never you know, I'm never upset that that we do that. So we show up with our different rule books, right? Like I'm thinking one thing, she's thinking, whatever, equality, and I'm not wanna be um, you know, I I I don't want to be the have to to be emboldened, not to embolden, I'm I'm I don't want to be I don't have to be talking about being overly assertive? Uh-huh. Yeah, yeah. I don't want to be indebted to this person because they're they're you know they're paying for me and I feel obligated, right? Obligated or indebted to the person, et cetera. Like, so they're showing how do we mitigate? How do we how do we mitigate that, right?
unknown:Okay.
SPEAKER_02:So I'll just use myself as an example. Like, I always want to pay. I'm planning on paying, right? I I but I'm doing the asking, right? I'm making the plan. I'm the one that's determining. Usually it's gonna be a coffee or a drink date in the beginning, like low, you know, low vibe, not high vibe, but just low intensity, something that's not you know a big deal. So I I feel comfortable with that. I'm just planning on it. Yeah, like okay, so that's how I'm showing, I'm showing up. But she's showing up differently. Like, what's the communication like? What happens? Like, how do I deal with it? Like, she doesn't want me to pay.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Again, I have like five different ways to take this. Okay, so we're still at another 40 minutes. Okay, cool. All right. So, first thing I would start with is if you're the one in whoever is inviting the other person out, I think there's a certain expectation that, you know, man or woman, not that that person that does that extends the invitation pays for everything necessarily, but I think the person inviting the other person to join them is already in the lead. I think it makes sense that they're paying 50% or more of what's going on. I think that just makes sense. I think I think that's a nice expectation. You know, if I was to invite you out to have a drink, it's weird that I would expect you to pay for them. You know, like that just does that to me, that that feels backwards. Yeah. For me, if I'm inviting you out to a drink and I said, well, hey man, I'm, you know, thanks for coming. I'm gonna treat for these. For me, it feels like a natural follow-up to an invitation. Um, I don't think it's necessarily always expected. It obviously depends on the context. So, but I want to keep that in mind. Remember that this isn't entirely neutral. When you extended the invitation, you were inviting her into an experience, you're leading that experience, paying for some or all of that experience to me feels like a natural extension. So that's the first thing. Second thing, okay, I think it's good for us to let ourselves off the hook, particularly if we have never seen this person in person before, to let ourselves off the hook of the expectation that we have to pay for everything. So, you know, if you're grabbing coffee with somebody that you met on a dating app, okay, it's coffee, you know, they're they're four bucks a cup, something like that. You know, I mean, we're not talking about a lot of money here. And that's another reason that I like low pressure, low commitment, you know, first meetings, first encounters. It's a vibe check. It's not, it's, you know, sometimes it might turn into date, but it the idea isn't to start it out like it's a date because you've never even met in person. Um, but even in those situations, I look at it as this is a blind date, really, because I've never met this person in person. I have no obligation. This is me letting myself off the hook. I have no obligation to pay for a stranger whose company I might actually detest. There was, yeah, there was, I'll give you an example. This was, I think, I don't know, a year or two ago. I went on a first date, you know, it was drinks, you know, at a at a bar with this woman. She was having a bad day, she was having a bunch of things. I had met the bartender once there like a month ago, month and a half ago, and he remembered me. The date was absolutely awful. It was, it was the most un one of the most unenjoyable, hostile, caustic like exchanges I've ever had with a woman from a dating app. She wasn't attacking me, but she was in such a crabby mood. It was it was really quite bad. And then, you know, and it it lasted less than an hour, you know, and I'm glad that I actually got there early and just ordered my own drink. But when when she left, you know, I went over to the barder and I said, I said, that was the you know, worst first date ever from online dating. And he said, that was a first date. I thought that was your ex-wife. He thought that this woman was chewing me out. He couldn't hear anything, he was just seeing the the energy, you know, from like 15, 20 feet away. And and and the thing, but the reason I bring up this story is you don't know when you're meeting somebody from online what they're gonna be like. Should I feel obligated to pay for that woman's drinks when she is being, I mean, a very unenjoyable, not even polite person? Heck no. I I I I really don't I and I'm gonna let myself off the hook of of the expectation that I have to do this or I'm not having a great time and she wants to have a second drink. There is no obligation for me to continue to continue to stay there, continue to entertain, and certainly not to pay for this experience.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, that's that's fair. And I I think the what what you were you just you described, if if you're trying to create so our ultimate goal is this is potentially somebody we want to spend a lot of time with. Maybe depending on who you're dating, it could be a long-term relationship or or getting married or or whatever. If you're wanting to create a an environment for what that's going to be like, or for somebody to be attracted to you and your in your life, you've got to keep that in mind when you are like your four or your first date. Like you're not gonna get a second chance at a first impression. Okay, you've heard that line lots of lots of different times, but you're setting a tone going forward for you know for the rest of this this relationship. And so, like you said, if you are taking the lead, hopefully you've taken the lead and you've asked her, it'd be kind of like kind of like inviting somebody over to your house for a barbecue and then asking them for 10 bucks like for the burgers and the barbecue and the food and and and stuff, right? Like that's ridiculous. So you wouldn't do that with your friends. So I don't that that's shouldn't be the expectation. But I do like what you what what you said, which is like if this is just a terrible experience and she's not showing up in in the right way, then you you're not obligated to to anything. And the other thing I will say, and that I see this seems to be more the case with online dating, there are some women out there just looking to get a free dinner or get free drinks, or just get over on somebody. I've gotten good enough to weed that out before we even like get there, right? Like on a date. But just be aware that you're not obligated. Like you can simply say split the check, pay it, and leave if you figured out that that's what it is and it's not in alignment with what your intentions are for for dating, right? If you're showing up and you're truly genuinely doing all the things we talk about on all of our episodes and trying to create an in an environment and experience for her, and you can if you figured out pretty quickly that she's there, she's not ordering the white rice, you know, she's ordering the the ribeye steak, and and that it's you know, that she's not engaged, that she's not in. She's looching. You're not obligated, guys. You are not obligated. This is a day and age where she's not going to be destitute if she has to pay her half of the bill. And you know, this it's that is part of showing up in the right way. So I I appreciate that that you said that because I don't know that you know, I don't know that I've always subscribed to that, right? Like there's lots of times where I have it.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I and and it's hard, even though I know it and believe it and remember it, it's still hard for me to do it because I'm setting a boundary there. And if I feel like somebody's mooching off me, you know, that they're real they're there just to order the most expensive things and have a man pay for them because it boosts their ego or or who knows what. And I realize that I'm being taken advantage of, that I'm that somebody is draining me, my resources, my time, my attention, and my money. I'm going to set a boundary because those that surplus inside of me is finite. There's only so much of it. And I don't want somebody else that's taking it selfishly to take it from me. I I don't. So setting that boundary is, you know, it's not going to feel good because you're you're you're sort of chopping off the connection, but you're really just protecting yourself in that sense. So let me let me flip one. Other let me flip though to the other side, you know, like back to the positive spin on this. So I believe that the root source of this, you know, the guy treating, you know, the man treating the woman on a first date. I believe that the root sort of the source of this is you need to demonstrate as a man that you have surplus.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And you need to demonstrate that you have surplus energy. You need to demonstrate that you have surplus attention, meaning I'm listening to what you're talking about. I'm not, I'm not preoccupied by a million other things going on at work or in my life. I have this surplus of time and attention. And I have a surplus of financial resources. I it's not a big deal. This isn't, this isn't a strain on me to take you out for whatever it is that we're doing. Because the the truth is, as a man, if I'm barely making my ends meet, or if I'm if I'm underwater and and I'm and I really can't afford this, that is a red flag, gentlemen. If you can't afford, if you don't have extra in your budget, what you know, that's not going to be attractive to a woman. We, you know, the the the social media world has convinced so many men, you know, young and old, that if you're not a multimillionaire, women don't want you. This is totally not true. However, however, you do need to have some surplus in your finances to be able to spend and enjoy to create these experiences that you're shared. And paying for a woman on the date simply because you can and you have these resources, it's not showing off. It's not being ostentatious in itself. It can, it can turn that way if if you're if all you're doing is flashing cash around. But demonstrating that it's no big deal because you have extra money to spend, women, that that's a signal to the woman that this man is financially established, that he's financially stable, that she doesn't, that this man isn't going to end up mooching off of her at some point.
SPEAKER_02:Right. Yeah, and and that that came up last night with my daughter and her, it was she had a friend that that was here talking to because her friend said her mother would say, Well, you need to demonstrate that you're you're independent. So you you need to to be able to pay, or you need to offer to pay, or you need to pay some of the time. Which gets us into so you know, it gets us into that mentality, right? These are young ladies that are getting this message around that. And I said, Well, so so my conversation was, well, so I I am always going to pay because if I can't afford to pay, I shouldn't be out on a date, is the was the first point I I made, which is what you just said, right? Like I have resources to be able to do this, and that's gonna carry over into a relationship and maybe a life together. So that you're demonstrating something. And and so I did I did make that point. But the the other point I I I I wanted to bring up with them, and and let's discuss this too, is this whole mindset of being independent about this. And I said, We're not independent, we are not, we are all uh dependent to some extent on women, and women are dependent on men. And this is just the design of life and the world and the differences between men and women, and this is a really good thing that is in our unique design of how we are. So when you get that mentality, if you and and so then so then I pivoted to the fact that it's it's good to be able to say, hey, well, let me pay. And and this kind of gets into like, you know, if this is this a is this a soft offer? Are they insisting? Are they is it a hard stop when they when they when they when they when they say that, or have they maybe been coached to be polite and say, hey, can I contribute? And then you say say no. But let's talk about so those are two different things, right? One is the fact that we are interdependent, and that is a good thing. So this whole dependence, independence mindset makes me freaking crazy. The equality thing, and that's where it gets into what did I describe it as the the the chivalry paradox, right? Like they they want this equality thing, but then they want to be wrong. Like, if we would just all come to understand we are in in interdependent upon each other, like what we're doing here is trying to like sort through that a little bit to help each other feel comfortable about it. So take it from there. That's a lot.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, so the independence question, super important from a few angles. So, personally, when I read Stephen Covey's The Seven Habits of Highly Affected People, it outlined this for me in very, very clear detail. And I thought it was amazing. And this is the overarching trajectory of the book. We start out as dependents. We're we're babies, we're children, we're 100% dependent on our parents. And at a certain point, you know, once we reach our teenage years and young adult years, we're supposed to be transitioning from dependent to independent. And so we have to, we have to develop our independence as humans. We do have to. And then once we've established that we are self-sufficient, we can provide for ourselves, we we have the means of doing that, then we turn towards each other and we realize we we don't want to live completely disconnected and and we don't want to live completely independent from each other. We want to have, we want to have emerged into independence so that we're no longer dependent. We're no longer children. We've but once you have reached that independent state, you start looking for the opportunities to be interdependent with others and we start having a we sense, a community. The difference is when you're when you're forming bonds and connections with people that are that both people are coming from an independent mindset, the likelihood of that being a healthy attachment is really is is much higher. When people that are coming to it that are still in a dependent mindset, you know, they're psychologically, they haven't done their work, they're, they're still they're still in, you know, some bad habits from childhood. And then they're trying to, you know, they go into pair bonding as adults. Well, that's not going to be the most healthy attachment because they haven't established their own independence. So as a broad, as a broad sense of the word independence, there's that. Now, let me speak to women's independence from men. For me, it is a very, very, very simple situation. Women have an incredible amount of independence and power, and it's wrapped up in one word. The word is no. When a woman says no, she exercises a hundred percent independence. And women should say no until they find something that they really like. Women should be saying no fairly often because a guy is not bringing to the table what they're looking for. Men, we draft the invitations, we slide them across the table. All a woman has to do is say no. No, thank you. Not right now. No, I'm I'm not really that interested. That's all you have to say as a woman to assert your independence. Everything else, you don't need to demonstrate that you make money on your own. You don't need to, that's that all is I said no. So I'm going, I'm maintaining my separation. I will take care of myself. I am no longer your concern because I simply said no. As far as I'm concerned, that's all a woman really needs to say is no, in order for her to do it. Now, backfill that. Do I have the strength of character? Do I have my independent job where I can say no and it doesn't stress me out as a woman? Uh yeah, yeah, you do want to get your stuff, you know, your ducks in order so that you're not, you know, desperately, you know, I don't know, leaning on a man for whatever it is. Yes, of course, but that's just backfilling. All you have to do to assert your independence as a woman is to say no. I I mean it's it's really that simple.
SPEAKER_02:Well, and but but but in doing that, we we all just need to come to the table accepting the fact that, yeah, okay, we do know that women can and are independent these days, right? Like it's not the that's just that is how life is. And so I think that what gets what happens, and and so I I I agree with you 100%. Like the no just demonstrates the independence, right? That's perfect. But the underlying uh assumption has to be uh everybody that comes to the table just knows that we can each all be independent. Women are independent, they're no longer, it's no longer a society where they're that they're showing up on a date looking for a husband because they need to have a husband, how it was maybe 70 or 80 years with that with that expectation. So that's not happening anymore. So if we just have the underlying agreement that, yep, I know that you probably could be independent, you could probably pay for this yourself, you could probably you might make money like okay, that's all good. We just we all know that. That's great. Like, if everybody's success, you don't have to prove it. I don't have to like like let's just like why does that even have to be out there anymore?
SPEAKER_00:Because yeah. Because why? Because we're playing out of different rule books. What you just said would be beautiful, but you're basically saying if you know, if we could all just agree on this one page of the rule book being the same, this problem would go away. I agree with you. And Jude, when you're king of the world, I hope you do rewrite that page of the rule book and you let and everybody plays out of it. It would be simpler in a lot of ways if we did. The problem is when we are saying, why can't everyone just read from the same page of the same rule book? That's asking the question that leads to us getting butthurt. For me, for me, I look at it as it's much simple, it's much simpler than that, particularly in a society where people have different expectations and different reasons. All women have to say is no. And the minute they do, that is a clean break. They don't have to explain themselves, they don't have to justify it to anyone, they don't even have to justify it to themselves. They can just say, I'm I'm I'm choosing to say yes because I want to, and I'm choosing to say no because I don't want to. That is full, pure independence. It doesn't have to be more complicated than that. Your reasons are your own reasons. And you can play out of whatever page of the rule book that you want. I come to the table assuming that if a woman wants to be there, that a woman is there because she said yes and wants to be there. And I'm assuming that a woman knows at any point that she can say no and walk away. And if she doesn't know that, quite frankly, that's not my fault.
SPEAKER_03:Right.
SPEAKER_00:It's not my job to demonstrate that. That is that is moving from the dependency of childhood and attachment into adulthood. Adults say no, thank you to this and heck yes to this. That's what adults do. They make they they have the power of distinction between saying yes to something and no to something else. That's a decision, that's all you have to do to assert your independence.
SPEAKER_02:Right. Okay. So maybe the mindset shift is you can just know that, right? Like you know she's independent, you know, no is no. That's okay, that's great. Perfect. And if you are doing that, you're gonna be showing up in a way that you're comfortable with that, and you're comfortable then with us being assertive in wanting to pay for coffee or whatever. And then in even if she is uh maybe objecting, whether that is a true objection or not a true objection or just being nice, you can just feel comfortable with like, hey, I I invited you, I'd you know, I'd I'd like to to to pay for for coffee. Or sometimes I'll say, like, I'd I'd love to be able to, I'd love to pay for coffee uh this morning. Or are you comfortable with me paying for for for coffee or or something like that? Usually I just do it, right? And then you're creating that experience again. Like you're trying to take through, and I think even if if you do get a heart objection, like no, I would really feel much comfortable. That's even an opportunity, I think, to be able to be in your masculine and and be able to say something like, Hey, that's that's great, but I'd love for you to be my guest. Like, how about next time? You you can get you can get that that that even gives you an even more because some of this is them testing, right? Like testing to see where you're at, what's your how are you gonna feel like are you gonna show up butt hurt? Right? Yeah, yeah. Like if you're gonna get butthurt when she says no. No, I'm not gonna get butthurt, but I want to create and and and here's the other thing, Dallas, and and maybe we can comment a little bit that I don't know that women quite understand, but men enjoy like taking women out, helping women, being providers, protectors. Like inherently, the majority of men find pleasure and desire to do that for women. I know that that's something for that for me, lots of guys that I talk to are like, and so when I'm coming from a place like like that, when I'm when I'm on a date with a woman or when I'm dating women, it's like I'll just say, like, I like doing this. This is enjoyable. I it's fun to have a new experience with you, or take you somewhere you've never been, or or show you something that you've never seen, or something like that. That's kind of neat and and and fun. And that's where they respond to that.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, they do, they do. And and we do enjoy it as men. I mean, we feel like a boss, we feel like a king when we're able to treat, when we're able to do it. And let's just point out, I feel like a king when I treat other men. I feel like a king when I uh pay for, you know, the people at the table next to me at the restaurant. You know, this is a good feeling that we have. It's not just in a romantic context. Yes, okay, here's the tricky part in the negotiation in these moments, because it is, it is kind of like an emotional, you know, sort of thing, and people are coming to it from different places. So here's the here is, I think, probably the most important thing for a man to have in mind when he wants to treat a woman. And this is again appreciating and having compassion for where she's coming from, where we don't feel this way as guys. The the rule of reciprocity in human social interactions is really, really, really strong. Reciprocity is you did something for me, I feel a sense of obligation to do something for you in return. This man paid for something for me. I'm going to feel an obligation inside of me to give something back, or I'm going to feel that he feels entitled to something back from me. I don't want to be pressured into doing anything I don't want to do as a woman. That right there, that's the heart of the conflict inside of the woman. So you have to understand. And again, as a man, the woman is, you know, if flip the tables for a minute. I'm a man. The woman's like, well, I really want to, you know, it's like, let me pay for dinner or whatever. I'm like, okay, wonderful. You know, thank you. You know, and it's like in the back of my mind, oh, geez, I hope she doesn't want me to have to like hook up with her later. You know, or I hope she's not hoping that I'm just gonna say yes to another date. I mean, these are not problems that men face. Like this is, we're we're not worried about that pressure. You know, it's like, oh, is she hoping that I'm gonna come home later and like clean the gutters on her house? It seems like a far-fetched idea, you know, like it's that that's just not the way that negotiation plays out. So we're used to receiving this with no strings attached. We are. Women are not. Women are used to guessing what strings may or may not be attached. So, step one as a guy is realize this is what this woman is going through, you know, to varying degrees of intensity. Women are going to ask themselves this. And first of all, remember that woman saying no, that is that is her full independence. You don't have to overcompensate. She has to be able to say no. That's treating her like an adult. Now, knowing that there's going to potentially be this push and pull inside of her and this stress based on reciprocity. If you want to be as effective as possible, you want to you want to make statements similar to what you just said in your examples. You want her to, you want to demonstrate and say, this is not an exchange for something. This is not a transaction. I'm not trying to put you on the hook. I mean, yes, I want you to have a good experience, and yes, I want to see you again, but I'm not trying to buy your affection. I'm not trying to pressure you in and to into anything. And we don't have to say those words, but we can say other words like what you did. Like, I just enjoy doing this. So you're saying you're doing it because I enjoy it. Okay, well, now she knows what your motivation is. Your motivation is you enjoy doing it. Some other statements that I do is first of all, just downplay it. You know, like we're up at the coffee shop, we're doing it. You know, I know it's you know, uh a lot of times my my actual strategy at the coffee shop is we both show up together, I order my coffee, and he says anything else. He says it to me. And I said, Yeah, what would you like? And I'm just, we're just ordering, it's transactional. You know, and she says, you know, she'll be like, oh, do you want me to do it? I was like, no, it's no big deal. You know, and when I say no big deal, I am literally downplaying this like it's no big deal. So the idea that she owes me something is being diminished as much as possible. You know, if if we're like checking out, I don't know, like we're going on a picnic or something and we're at the cash register and we're like, well, what do we do? I was like, no, I got this. It's no big deal. And again, I'm I'm making it like the money isn't a big deal. That also demonstrates the surplus of the financial resources. But again, inside of her, he said it's no big deal. He's not making a big deal out of it. You know, it's like we don't even we don't have to worry about splitting this. This isn't this isn't that much.
SPEAKER_02:You know, I wanted to also add another thing that in in in my mind, I try to do kind of when I know that this is happening or this we're coming to this point. And this might be maybe when you're dating a little more and buying dinners or doing something like that. Is I try to to maybe talk about the experience and how much it's been enjoyable, right? Like to get the mind off of something specific around money and be like, wow, this was really a nice evening. I loved dinner. There was food. We try like like talk about that, and then a check comes in. It's not like it's more about, hey, yeah, I'm you know, I'm creating this experience, and then if they go whatever, then then it makes it less of a of a like a weird thing or an awkward situation. It's like, yeah, she's in her experience. If you've got her in the thinking about the experience, then she's not thinking about oh, like the reciprocity thing, right? Like not thinking about, well, now what is he gonna want or or whatever? She's in that experience. Yep. And then you and then you're like, yeah, it's no big deal. That's fine. I got it. Like, whatever. Exactly. Yes. But it it's kind of a timing thing. You gotta you gotta think through it a little bit. But really, if you're really good, which I'm not, but if you're really good, this experience is all happening really naturally. Like you all you are having a good time, and then you know, maybe the check comes and whatever, and you're paying, and then there's no conversation, right? Like it's just part of the experience.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, that's the ideal place is to get into a place where the you know conversation is flowing, you have a million tangents and so much to talk about. You're having such a great time that you even forgot that you know you have to pay for this dinner because you're so swept up in the moment. You know, it gets there, she is so in her feminine that she doesn't even notice that the waiter dropped it off and you put it and you know, or she went to the bathroom and came back and she's like, Oh, we have to pay. And it's like, no, I already got that. And again, you're you're you're you're making it no big deal. I love also when you're when in the example you just gave, you were focusing on the experience, and that's taking the pressure off of her. If you're talking about how beautiful she is and you're making the experience focused on her, and then you're paying for something, then it seems again kind of transactional.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:You know, I'd, you know, if it if it's a meal or something and the check has come in, they're like, you know, would you like to split it? I was like, you know, actually, I no, I'd let me get it. You know, I'm you know, I'd I'm having a I'm having such a great time, you know, I'd love to pay. And when I just say I'm having an enjoyable experience, notice there that I'm talking about I'm if you want to look at it, if you want to look at it transactionally, I'm paying for the experience that's already been had. I'm not paying for an experience I'm hoping to have after we leave the restaurant.
SPEAKER_01:Great point.
SPEAKER_00:You know, and and when you said it that way, that's again, that that releases some of the tension and angst and worry and concern inside of her. It puts her at ease, it causes her to relax. And and then she's operating from a place of her own desire. She's saying yes because she wants to, she's not saying yes out of reciprocity.
SPEAKER_02:And this is affect the mindset, right? Like how you're showing up, which excuse me, I think is important because here's another thing that d dads that that we experience in you know, in is the fear of how we how we look getting back into the dating pool, right? Like so went through a tough ringer. Like the house might be gone, half of our retirement is gone, you know, we might feel broke, we might feel less than. If you're showing up like that, guys, that is going to translate into what's what's going on. It's gonna become transactional, you're gonna be. I think that's a great point. Like you're talking about, oh, I'm paying for what am I paying for something in the future, or I'm paying for the experience we had. If you're showing up, that this is gonna be just an enjoyable time, you're creating a a fun time. You can even look at it from a from a standpoint of being entertained. Like you're going out and you're being entertained, you're entertaining, and you have the opportunity to have this beautiful woman with you in this, you know, in this experience, which who doesn't want a beautiful woman to go experience dinner or theater or a hike or like whatever else. Yeah, like you're having this experience, and this kind of goes back to Dr. Glover's stuff of like you're baking that cake and and she's the the icing on the cake, right? We're not diminishing the fact that or or what she brings to that. But you know, if you've got that mindset that you're creating this experience, the experience is for you, but you're in it, you're it's augmented by the fact that you have her there and with you, and hopefully she's gonna be enjoyable. That's gonna be a completely, completely different mindset that you show up with. You're gonna have to show up with, but it's gonna be a completely different experience that she's having and you're having. And it's gonna be you this awkward stuff, the kind of these conversations, all it's really gonna fall by the wayside if you are in the right mindset.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it is, it is. You know, the the money enables the experience. That's all it is. The money just unlocks it. And even when you talk about bigger ticket items, like I'm gonna take my girlfriend to Hawaii, you know, for a trip, you know, and you're and you're shelling out, you know, multiple thousands of dollars. Again, I'm, you know, I'm demonstrating what my what my surplus financial picture looks like. I'm demonstrating what I can afford. It's not about the money, it's about the experience. The money is there just to allow the experience. It's it's one of the components that allows the experience to take place. Now, now I want to I want to switch it around to something that I'm sure is on your notes, even though we haven't really brought it up, which is allowing the woman to also contribute and pay some of the time.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, that's what we were gonna wrap up with is like, okay, so then like we talked about the red flag of the woman that shows up, or like, okay, that's real easy.
unknown:Yep.
SPEAKER_02:That's real easy to figure out, right? And and see. But where so you're dating maybe a couple dates, and then you know, you want to, you know, the dynamics gotta shift like a little bit because you're looking maybe for somebody that wants to be a partner in this, right? So then how does that transition and how do you work through that?
SPEAKER_00:Okay, so I believe we brought this up in an episode way back when. There are basically two orientations that a person can have when they're dating. They're either investing resources or they're extracting resources. Those resources can be sexual resources, they can be attention, they can be time, they can be emotional intelligence, they can be, you know, handyman skills around the house. You know, all of these things come in. Money is also one of those resources. Right. You know, the red flag woman that's just looking for free drinks and a free meal, she's looking to extract resources, financial resources, as well as some time and attention from a man. If that's what you're looking for in a woman, go ahead. You know, if if that's if that's the game that you want to play. Most healthy relationships that really have longevity to them that are not, especially if well, if both people are extracting resources, that's called transactional. You know, man's extracting what he wants, girls, you know, woman's extracting what she wants, and that's transactional. That can work. That can work, yeah. But let's but let's call a spade a spade. You know, it's like, you know, yeah, I won't go into any famous examples probably because I can't remember the famous thing. We all know this exists. It's in a really young hot chair. Absolutely. Yeah, you know. So, but I I personally, I personally like and enjoy and feel that there is more longevity to a relationship in which both people are looking to invest resources. So, as a man, I'm taking the lead. I'm inviting, I'm investing through an invitation, I'm investing by, you know, them coming out, and I'm also investing some financial resources to pay for these experiences so that the experience can happen. That's why I'm really paying. I'm not paying transactionally to get something from her. I'm paying so that we can be here enjoying whatever, you know, this this comedy show. Like I'm doing it so that we can enjoy the evening and have the experience together. Now, at a certain point, I have to ask my, I have to ask myself, is this woman also investing into these experiences with me? Right. Now, do I expect her to invest 50-50? The whole point that kind of kills the experience to be counting like that. You know, like I consider a friend of mine to be a good friend when we don't know who paid last, but it's dumb for us to split the bill while we're at the bar. I paid this time, did you pay last time? I don't know, I think you did, whatever. It it doesn't matter. The point is both of us could pay and we're not keeping track, and we're both investing in our shared experience. That's what a healthy dynamic feels like. Eventually, on the date, it should be similar. Both people are investing financially, where it's like, okay, well, I paid for dinner and I paid for this, and she's like, Well, let me, you know, let me grab the drinks at the comedy club this time, you know. And and I think it's important to see that demonstrated. You know, I mean, I I've definitely been on women, you know, and it'll be four or five dates, and these will be multi-part dates where we did have dinner and then went to a show and then we went somewhere else. And she's saying thank you all over the place, but not once ever offered to pay for even a small thing. And and for me, it became pretty clear that I felt like I'm the only one investing in a certain side of this. Maybe that woman is coming from a social background where women don't ever pay, period, full stop. Maybe, maybe she does. And I could ask about that, but all I know is the feeling that I'm getting, it doesn't feel very good to me. And I'm and I'm not really enjoying it. Or if the woman is reciprocating in other ways, or maybe we have a huge income discrepancy. You know, I mean, if she's much younger than me, she's in school, doesn't have a lot of money, you know, and you know, maybe she was recently divorced and going back to get a nursing degree, you know, and you know, and I'm sitting pretty, you know, because I've had my six-figure job for a while, my expectations of her paying, it's like, well, this just why she hasn't have much money, you know. But the real thing is it's not about the money, it's about the experience. And are both people investing resources, or do you feel like they're actually extracting resources? And as far as I'm concerned, you gotta trust your gut on that.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I think that's a great, that's a that's a great point because investing into the experiences is what's building the relationship, right? Like each of these each of these experiences are what lead to the the relationship and where the relationship is is going. And so, and and you made I I feel like you hit it on the on the head, which was are they and and research can be different. It can be financial, it can be emotional, it can be just effort, right? Like uh well, did she did she plan? to to to bring a blanket or bring you know to to help you make a part of the plan or pick out where you're going or whatever it might be. Like there are other ways in which and and this goes this vice versa too right there like there are other ways that you can also be contributing to the experiences that are not just financial. And that's really important too especially uh to to to to women if you are wanting to have this long-term relationship maybe it's somebody that you want to introduce to your kids to eventually she's gonna she's going to be investing these resources whatever they might be it might not just be financial but she's gonna be investing these into each of these experiences and she's gonna understand and she's gonna I feel like you're gonna know that she she values a dollar she she knows that you're putting this into a woman that's in her feminine and that is healthy is going to do a couple things she's going to she's going to acknowledge number one right and and she's going to appreciate number two right like usually what uh if it if she's healthy and there is this dynamic and there might be a disparity of let's just say specifically financial resources she's still she's still going to acknowledge and she's going to appreciate and so those I think are two things to look for when when when you're doing this if she is acknowledging and if she is appreciating because like your your situation I've been I've been on dates and I've dated people where like I just knew I was going to be paying it was just it was just the disparity but she always acknowledged and she always appreciated the the fact that that I was doing that. And that's all I needed like I didn't need because that was her contribution to the experience because I I want to feel that I want to feel acknowledged I want to feel appreciated and that's all I needed like and and and the whole experience was awesome right because she was there she was engaged she showed up looking good like some of the things that that I want from from a woman on a on a date yeah I mean and and and the truth is you know we're not paying on a date so that a woman will pay for us on another day on another date right that is that is so not our motivation as a man.
SPEAKER_00:Like we're we're paying and we're creating this experience because we want the woman to feel happy relaxed you know lighthearted carefree playful and horny like that's what we want the woman to feel in our company. And we want her to feel that way in our company the way she never has with any other man ever in history or going forward. That's that is what we want. And again we're not it's not we're not trying to buy it. We're trying to step into an experience when when she's with us she just for some reason feels that way. That's what we're shooting for. And and and when you see it that way, when you see the experiences as enabling you know states and emotions inside of us, the money really becomes not all that important. And if the money still is important to you either one your financial game is not on point or two you have an attachment and an importance to money that is disproportionate and it's gonna get in your way. If you if if you as a guy are preoccupied and counting in your mind how much you've paid and how much she's paid you have to ask yourself like are you you know it it's is is how important is money to you is it is is this kind of a distracting fight figure for you and to your other point I know you said it beautifully I just want to reiterate it money can't be the only resource that you're contributing. You need to be a good listener. You need to bring good vibes to the table if all you are is the guy that pays for everything go find a prostitute. Like that's that's what a prostitute is is sex for money. If all if all you want a woman to look for from you is money and you don't want to have to be emotionally present. You don't want to have to be present in other ways. And I'm guessing a lot of the dads listening to this probably this isn't a problem for them because they they have you know gotten this place. So I'm you know I'm thinking of it from you know you know a single man who's never been married and doesn't have kids. But there might be some dads listening that this is an issue it may have even been an issue the issue you know one of the issues in your marriage. Money can't you don't want to lean on it. Some people really they have they grew up in environments where money was a very toxic thing. It was a tool that people used to control people have leverage you want to ask yourself when you're paying if you have to pay that's kind of a red flag if you need to be in charge if you have these strict rigid rules around money in dating you want to take a look in the mirror and ask yourself where's that coming from I just want to throw those those ideas out there.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah yeah and so maybe maybe we can we will we've covered a ton and a lot of good stuff. Maybe we can summarize the first thing is your mindset right so where you're and we talk every episode it comes down to this guys you're gonna hear us talk about this every single episode it comes down to your mindset and where you're at in in in getting ready and preparing yourself to date. So if your mindset is good around this you're not feeling what I described earlier lack or that you're broke or anything like anything like that then that's good because you're gonna show up in a different way. She's gonna feel the vibes around that. So that is a a number one the other is what we what we also talked about was that we just know that women can be independent these days and that no is a full sentence and that's okay that's her exerting her independence and don't get butthurt. It's yeah it's okay. That's good and it's not a bad thing. It actually can be an objection that you can overcome that actually is going to probably lead to better things for you in the future if you're not butthurt around that.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah and let her say no. If she wants to split the bill demonstrate that you're a guy that's flexible and say sure you know let her buy independently let her warm up and feel comfortable to you at the rate that she needs to if she needs to split the bill for the first you know two or three dates that's fine. She needs that boundary in place in order for her to feel safe and comfortable let her do it. You know I mean she it you're doing it because she said she needs to in order to feel safe that's fine. And you're like hey I'd love to pay this time and if she's got if she's got some issue with well I don't want to be in a place where I feel like beholden to a man or something, then then you can say you know I'm I'm I'm just having a good time. You know the money isn't a big deal. You know and does she does she relax and let down that boundary at a certain point and invite and let you give her enjoyable experiences or is she got her guards up really high and doesn't really want to let a man she doesn't want to make herself that vulnerable or open to a man giving her that kind of experience. And if that's the case, respect it. Let her be that way and realize that she's not giving you the experience you want as a man. You're not enjoying her company nearly as well as you could. This is not a question of right and wrong this isn't morals. This isn't trying to go into her rule book and rewrite the page to fit the way you think it should be that's even worse than being butthurt by somebody's page being different than yours is trying to change their rule book. Show them where you're coming from and if they're like and if they don't like the sound of it let it go and find somebody that's like oh I love that you like to pay I mean there are plenty of women that still love the chivalry you know paradox they they they love it when a man opens the door for them. They love it when a man makes the effort they they I can tell you they all love it when you fix their water heater. You know there isn't a single woman out there that's like oh well no I want to fix my own water like who it's like when a guy shows up and does that it's always good.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah right so so we can summarize that that last point as creating the experience like be in there creating experience and understand that the experience the collective experiences are what then create the relationship. So if you can enables it if you can if you've got to chunk it down and think of it in in a in a male brain kind of way think of it that way like these experiences and and I like what you said also is check into what your experience is too because that's in that's important. If you're not having the experience that that you want then that's the sign. And I like that that's the sign like okay well this she's she's not contributing to the experience how I want to hopefully you're having conversations and you're communicating like we've talked about in some past episodes but and that's fine too that's good. This is all feedback right this is all feedback and it helps you cut the cord and be done with it before it becomes more difficult or challenging or a problem etc and that's perfectly fine also as well. So Dallas this was awesome awesome conversation it went no nowhere how I anticipated as usual so I I love that I appreciate your your feedback where can the guys get in touch with you and do you got do you have any events coming up also? I know you had one last week do you have anything coming up here soon?
SPEAKER_00:Not in the rest of 2025 holiday season's coming up me and my collaborators are just kind of taking a break if you yeah if you want to follow up I'm actually going to suggest that you get on Jude's mailing list because we are doing a monthly QA dating discussion you know where I'm on board and uh your your guys are there. We had an awesome discussion last week I would say the first place to start really is jump on Jude's mailing list. I'll let you give the the address for that. For the guys that want to check me out specifically uh jump over to blackboxdating.com you can click on the media tab and that'll take you to all my social media channels and if you like what you hear uh check out the coaching program live interactions every week and on the higher levels you can get into uh live in the field work with me personally yeah and you I got a lot of I got a lot of great feedback from we had a lot of guys on the call but we I got a lot of great feedback from from guys on that that Q ⁇ A that we had last week the next one looks like I think we've got coming up December 18th so if you go to the divorced advocate dot com and right on the home page is just join our email list and you'll get you'll get a reminder of everything that's that's going on when we're having it or you can just go to the calendar itself and then you can link your calendar to our calendar and it'll just show up in your calendar.
SPEAKER_01:So you can download each of those events that that are coming up and it'll just they'll just sync right to your right to your calendar. So we've got it set up that way.
SPEAKER_02:And Jude are these the are these free events at the moment for for the people on the mailing list or yeah so well some stuff is some stuff is free this Q ⁇ A that we're doing ask a dating coach you've been gracious enough to to to donate your time and and we spend an hour going going through and just kind of talking about a topic and then taking Dallas took a ton of great questions from from guys this this past session and and we have really robust conversation around things which I know we we always have a robust conversation when we get guys involved it's even more it's even more fun to to go back and forth and and and talk about this stuff. So so check it out yeah so these ones are these ones are are free for for you guys but I know we're also gonna we're planning some stuff in the new year in the first quarter to to to do in person and and live and uh maybe go on some deeper dives as well. So we got a lot of stuff planned that's the the point get involved get in get involved in Dallas's community get involved with the dwarf advocate community and you guys will be covered awesome.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah you know I I don't know I I don't know necessarily what what the guys are going to bring to the discussions but I love that our last QA like if we were getting shots out of left field you know whole different stuff I think I think it's Chris Voss you know right um what was it what was the book yeah yeah never split the difference I think yeah you know lots of good stuff coming up and and I I love this I actually love I come alive under pressure so I love it when people have you know just completely different points of views and and different experiences that they're bringing in it it makes for a very exciting call and and they're free right now you know I mean at some point we're probably gonna have to be charging for it so get in there now while you guys still can and uh get on yeah for sure yeah well Dallas thank you this was awesome gentlemen if you found some value in it please share far and wide on social media give us a star rating on your on the platform you're listening or even better give us some uh comments we'd love to hear comments so give us some comments we will respond to all of them and Dallas have a great week we'll chat next week you too June have a happy Thanksgiving
Podcasts we love
Check out these other fine podcasts recommended by us, not an algorithm.
