42 - Airplane Mode For Your Ex

Your ex doesn’t have to ruin your new relationship, but if you don’t build structure, she can rent space in your head 24/7. We get real about what happens when dating after divorce moves from casual to committed: you’re seeing someone consistently, you’re thinking about introducing the kids, and suddenly the “gatekeeper” ex starts blowing up your phone. We share a simple tactical move that actually works in the moment, plus the deeper mindset that makes it sustainable.

We walk through how we think about boundaries as dads: not a one-time rule, but an evolving system you keep upgrading as new problems appear. Jude Sandvall and Dallas Bluth break down why women feel safer and more attracted when a man is organized, steady, and humble enough to keep improving. Then we outline the relationship conversation many dads avoid: explaining the real dynamic with your ex, warning a girlfriend about likely drama, and setting expectations so she doesn’t get blindsided by texts, social media outreach, or conflict at kid transitions.

We also draw a sharp line between healthy transparency and unhealthy dependency. Your girlfriend should have visibility into your life, but she cannot become your therapist, your mom, or your emotional battery. Finally, we talk kids, gatekeeping, parallel parenting, and a crucial reality of family court: narrative matters. Dating can be spun as a distraction from your children if you move too fast or handle money and parenting time poorly.

Transcript

The Gatekeeper And The Guest

SPEAKER_01 0:20

Hello, and welcome to Dad's Dating After Divorce, the only podcast that teaches you how to keep the romance alive while your ex-wife's nagging is playing on a loop in the back of your skull like a corrupted Spotify playlist. My name is Jude Sandval, and I am the founder of the Divorce Dava Kit, my co-host Dallas Bluth, founder of Black Box Dating. Dallas, how are you doing? Fabulous, Jude.

SPEAKER_02 0:47

Ready to talk about this record on loop in the back of my head. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 0:51

The record on loop. Well, you don't have a nagging ex-wife, so you don't have that record on loop in the back of your head.

SPEAKER_02 0:59

So I want to know what to look forward to if I ever do have an ex-wife.

SPEAKER_01 1:05

Oh my gosh, man. Yeah. Well, just jump on over to the divorced advocate and get us some of our calls. And, you know, might sway you from ever having an ex-wife. But we digress. So the uh the the foreshadowing of the joke as usual is I'm affectionately calling this episode the gatekeeper and the guest because dad's dating, we finally find somebody. We might get through some of like what we talk about in the early days of dating, and you're in the more of a the relationship phase now. And and and so you're you're doing things, you're maybe you've introduced the the kids at this point, and this has now all of a sudden triggered your ex-wife. And so I do want to I do want to be clear that there are lots and lots of exes that are healthy mentally and emotionally, and they've they've uh broken up, you know, you've you've you've parted ways, you've remained amicable, and that they understand that having another woman that is healthy in their children's lives is a positive because it reinforces all the healthy things that that the mom brings to to that. But so, and that's the best case scenario, right? It's not always like that. We have we have lots of we are human, both of us, men and women, right? But also we have lots of folks that show up with just at at at the least we'll call it some mental emotional issues. And and so that's when phones start blowing up with 14 messages during the time where you're you know maybe trying to have a romantic encounter with your with your new with your with your new love interest, and and so you're trying to deal with what what I would describe as like the middleman syndrome, right?

Airplane Mode And Staying Present

SPEAKER_00 3:08

Like trying to like stay present and keep your head in the game, literally, so so the rest of your body can stay in the game. And and then but you you know you've got this, like uh just like it's almost two words airplane mode.

SPEAKER_02 3:28

It's it's my it's my it's my secret superpower when it comes to my mobile device, even without an X, is you put that sucker in airplane mode, it's totally different than having it on silent mode. I understand as a dad, you got to be available for your kids, but if you know the kids are taking care of, somebody else is responsible for them and all of that, like seriously, just unplug the phone so you don't have this other shoe waiting to drop in your mind emotionally, psychologically. You're like, oh, they're doing it. And you know, you see one message you didn't reply, and suddenly it starts, you know, like gremlins after midnight, you know, like multiplying and multiplying in front of you. It's like exactly like airplane mode, you know, you unplug, you know, the the whole thing and you're completely present, even if the phone, you know, like the phone's on silent silent, it's it's not sending through notifications, but you're still knowing maybe something new came through, and oh my gosh, I got this thing queuing up. I I just put it in airplane mode. When I have to do deep work, when I'm with somebody and I know that you know there's nothing else being expected of me and I want to be fully present, I put it in airplane mode. Uh when I'm on a date, for sure I'm doing it. And if I knew that there were like some, you know, some fireballs that were going to be coming out of left field at me, you can be dang sure I'd be putting it in airplane mode whenever I can.

Build Structures That Hold Under Stress

SPEAKER_01 4:46

Yes. And that's it, guys. Episode put it in airplane mode problems. We're we're working done here, guys. You're welcome. Okay, well, no, and and and I tease a little bit, but I I I agree 100% that that is a that is a tremendous, tremendous way to deal with things. I let's so let's work back for where let's let's this is what not what I had envisioned, and you know I have my notes, right? And my my my line. Let's work backwards for next because I think that's part of the solution of what you do with your environment in in mitigating some of this. But so let's working backwards from there though. Let's talk. I want to start I want to start with talking about what I always talk about, which is you've got to know your you've got to have your environment structured to where you can then mitigate some of this just by putting it on airplane mode. And that goes to what we talk about, it seems like almost every episode now, Dallas, is taking some time to get your life structured with your kids so that you kind of know what's going on and how reactions are going to start happening. Because this is not, this is, you know, whatever this behavior might be or whatever problems or challenges you might be facing with your ex is this isn't going to be the first time. But if you haven't taken the time to get through those seasons, like I say, to get things settled with your kiddos, really to uh to to be uh in a place to be dating and in a relationship. So hopefully you've done all that. And if you have done all that, then you will understand better, not maybe completely or entirely or have the playbook down or know how to handle all of it, but you're gonna better understand kind of this relational dynamic that you were in with your ex-wife, how she's you know, reacts, how she used to react, how you what you brought to this relationship and to this dynamic, how you can do better. And then this is gonna help you better, you know, better figure out how to mitigate this with your with your new we with your new part.

SPEAKER_02 7:01

Yeah. I when it comes to structures, I think we have to look at this almost like you're an auto manufacturer. Like you're you're Honda coming to your assembly lines, realizing that you have a structure in place, but you're going to be improving on it every single year. You're you're never you're never done optimizing, you're never done improving. The boundaries that you have in place, great. Well, maybe that ex-wife finds a way around that boundary, or she's find a she's found a crack in it, or something like that. Or, you know, we set the boundary in place because that's the best solution, that's the best way of expressing a, you know, a no, a boundary, you know, that we have today. Give yourself six months or a year. You will have outgrown that structure, and it's time for a new structure, just like the hermit crab, you know, crawling around on the floor of the ocean. You outgrow your shell and you got to find a bigger shell. And then, you know, however, I don't know how fast hermit crabs grow, but you know, whatever period of time it takes, you outgrow that one and have to find a bigger one. The structure that we're working with, we need to realize that it is it's sort of a paradox. On one side, it is firm, it's strong, it's stable, it's lasting. You can count on it, and everyone else, whether they like it or not, they can count on it. And at the same time, it's a living organic part of you that should be growing and evolving and improving for the sake of your efficiency, for the sake of your production and what you want to be experiencing for the sake of your children, for the sake of the gatekeeper wife that, you know, whether she realizes it or not, these boundaries are good. And for the sake of the, what do we call guest, the, you know, the girlfriend coming into the picture. And I would say that's the person that's going to be, in a lot of ways, the most sensitive to this is how, you know, the the better you have your structures in place and the better you are continually improving them, the more attracted that woman is going to be to your life.

SPEAKER_01 10:06

Yeah. I I really like that analogy of the of the updating or the upgrading of the vehicle models, right? We see that all the time. They're coming out with with new resources, new technology, better ways to to to to manufacture cars and and and so that that yeah, I like that. And that's that's exactly the same thing that we're going through as dads going through a divorce and post-divorce. And whether you like it, well, whether whether you wanted the divorce or not, whether you like it or not, it is ha it is happening to you. You're you're literally we are literally forced to have to upgrade ourselves to life 2.0 because we're going, we're going through this. So just going through this process, dads, means that you are upgrading your model to to to the next level. Now you can embrace that or you can fight against that. You can be the purist who wants, you know, wants to keep that old model because it doesn't have turbocharging on it or or or or or whatever newfangled thing on it, or you can up you can upgrade this this model. And yeah, go ahead.

How To Brief A New Partner

SPEAKER_02 11:17

Okay, but yeah, I I agree. And that is the choice. The the choice, however, is if you're going to be stubbornly stuck in your old ways, you're you're rigid, you're calcified, you are not growing. And a man who is rigid and not growing is not going to be attractive to the prospects that he's attracted to. Every, you know, in a lot of ways, this is a question of humility. If I am, if I think this is how it is, I think this is how it should be, and I'm not really looking or open-minded or and actively seeking within myself in a first-person way, ways to continually improve my boundaries and my structure because I think I have it all figured out. Well, that's pride getting in your way. And you know, similarly, if I don't want to change anything, well, because it seems like too much effort, okay, that's that's slothfulness, that's laziness getting in your way. Guys, women are not attracted to men that are lazy. Women are not attracted to men who are prideful and think they have everything worked out. Women are attracted to men that are constantly taking their shovel, digging into the ground, unearthing new discoveries, and are constantly evolving and growing and changing as a result. Those men have a have a nice, healthy flexibility to themselves. Again, paradoxically paired with a nice firm structure because they can see, you know what, I'm digging up new stuff. I'm seeing these old principles that I live by really do still apply.

SPEAKER_01 12:42

Yeah, and and being able to have those conversations. So having taken that time, dads, and then being able to convey that to your no new romantic in interests is really, really important. And and and so to to that point, if you've done that, then one of the first things you can do and you can talk about is what the dynamic is, what the dynamic might have been, what the dynamic currently is, how you're mitigating it, how she fits into the picture. And like you said, that is that is attractive. You don't have to have it all figured out. You don't have to know precisely, you don't have to have your finances all in a hundred like all this. No, most women are gonna be like, hey, yeah, he's he's he's reflecting on stuff, he's working on being a uh being a better man. It's incredibly attractive when you're you when you're being uh working on being even a better dad, right? You're already a good dad, you've already gone through this, you've already shown resilience, and you're interested in somebody else and bringing her into your life. Like you've already done lots of really cool stuff that are really attractive to her. And then now, you know, you're sharing kind of this dynamic, even if it's a difficult dynamic, dads. That is that's actually that's that's that's even something that's sexier for her if you're mitigating this and and and communicating and talking with her about it, because the flip side of this is it can deepen your relationship with her. If you're going to her talking, she is a woman, she likely has kids, or like at least has been around kids. You know, being able, and we've talked about this before, is is is soliciting feedback from from women is a great, great way to deepen a relationship. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:30

Yeah. When you're soliciting feedback, you are demonstrating that you value her as a person. Women are always asking this question: is he just physically attracted to me? You know, is he just after sex? Is he just after you know pleasure? And, you know, does he just want me to come over and help clean up the place? You know, is he looking for a live-in maid that he that he has benefits with? Women are constantly asking these questions. When you ask her, you know, I'm running into the situation, what's your take on it, either with your children or with your ex? And you say, I'm not asking you to fix anything, I just am looking for a larger perspective than the one that I have on my own. This is what I see. But what do you see? That is that is acknowledging and valuing her as a person, as a woman, as an adult, as bringing value to the table. That's treating her like a potential future partner in your life. Again, don't do that day three. You know, don't don't do it until we've established a little bit, you know, that that that it works between the two of us. And you're not looking to outsource, you know, you're you're looking for additional wisdom in the counsel of others outside of yourself. That's that's what this is about.

SPEAKER_01 15:37

And and and and I would say, you know, because I I like to have guidelines, right? I I would say this is I'm calling them guidelines now. I've give me some credit, Dallas. I'm I'm I'm down from rules to guidelines, okay?

SPEAKER_02 15:52

I am all in favor, dude. I am all in favor of this. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:56

I am growing, I am evolving, right? Yes, okay. But I I would say these these converse these conversations are happening when you're either determining to become exclusive or you've just decided to become exclusive, because this is going to have a huge impact. That in and of itself is gonna have an impact on your life and your kids' life, because the next phase is potentially introducing this person after you've been exclusive for a while. This is also when things potentially start to become challenging because your ex starts to act out and some of it's not some of it's not conscious, some of it is absolutely conscious, but some of it is just moms being moms and concern and worry, just like we have when a male partner is introduced to our our children as as well. I look, any guy is not you're gonna you're lying if you don't you like you don't tense up when that when you hear that happening or the potential of that happening, right? So the same goes for for for mothers as as as well. So this it this is this is that that is about the time when you're having this this this conversation. And and I would encourage to have the conversation earlier than than later because you're leaving a lot up to speculation and up to like the unknown and and doubt.

SPEAKER_02 17:23

Which conversation are you talking about specifically in this situation?

SPEAKER_01 17:26

Um I'm talking about setting setting the tone and talking about kind of the dynamic of what's going on and and and how how the relational dynamic has been, what boundaries you might be setting now, and and is this a conversation you're having with the girlfriend? With your new role, yeah, your your new romantic interest. Yeah, okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:49

And you're explaining to them what the what the dynamic is with your ex-wife, with your children, what the setup is. And we're talking about beyond logistics, because for example, as a as a single man, you know, when I'm when I meet a single mom, first question is how much of the time do you have your kids? Yep. And the reason I'm asking that question is what I need to know what her available what her availability is to spend time with me, get to know me, and see if our connection works together. Right. Is that but we're talking that that's that's that that's we're talking past that. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a first date, second date question. That's logistics. Okay, so the conversation that you're talking about right now goes beyond that. What is in that conversation? I've never had that conversation. Well, I guess I guess I've been on the receiving end, but I have never had to share it. Can you tell me what you're divulging uh when you're having that conversation?

Safety First Through Clear Expectations

SPEAKER_01 18:41

So going to what you always say, which is you're not necessarily bringing up a conversation, but you what you're doing is you're create, so you're you're creating the environment to allow her to know and feel comfortable that you have this under control, right? Like you've you understand what the dynamic is. If there are questions that come up that she brings up, or like how do I fit in, or what does this look like when you know when we're doing transitions, or am I going to meet your kids? That you've already thought through this, that she's not just the second person in this, that your whole life is just not happening, and that she's just kind of there, right? Like you understand that that the beginning part is logistics. This next part is relational dynamics. Like, how is this relation happening? How is this relationship going to go forth? What is your, you know, what is your ex-wife like? What can she expect? Like, I'll give you an example. For mine is very meddling, right? She's I I know that she's going to create problems. She's going to attempt to create problems. No matter what I've done and how much I've insulated or isolated any romantic partner, she's going to attempt to do stuff. And when I say attempt, like let your mind, let your mind wander, it's just crazy, stupid crap, right? That's something that I'll have a conversation about up front. And that's something that I need to give a warning to. So it is an actual conversation that I need to have before it happens, because if it happens, it can blindside somebody. So I I've got to have the conversation of hey, this has been this has been the the dynamic that's that has happened over the years. Now I've got you know 13 years of of dating, so I pretty much know the playbook. And I can say there's there's a high probability that you know she's gonna try to contact you, or she's gonna reach out to you on social media, or you know, or she's gonna do something or or or whatever. And so just know that's gonna happen and just feel free to ignore it. There's nothing that you need to do, or you're not gonna get pulled into any situation because I have got it handled and I know what the, you know, I know what the situation is, I know how she's gonna show up. So that would be kind of an extreme one, right? Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:59

So that that speaks to the first ingredient of creating the chemistry with a woman, which is safety. And when you first meet a woman, first, first date, second date, she wants to know if she's safe in your presence with you as a man. But as you're deepening into the relationship, there's a lot of unknowns here that she's hopeful, well, may never see at actually at all. And they may come out of left field. And it sounds like part of this conversation is essentially setting expectations on her end as far as what's going on and what to expect. I'd say probably a big part of that is knowing that she can lean on you whenever she needs to. Again, the girlfriend can lean on you whenever needed to unload this. And she doesn't feel like she's gonna have to, you know, deal with a bunch of you know, enemy fire coming at her. Is is that is that in a lot of ways what's actually trying to be communicated here is here's the parameters, and I want you to know what you're getting into so that you feel safe, and so that you don't get caught off guard, and so that you know you can come to me and I am on your side a hundred percent of the time.

SPEAKER_01 22:04

Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. If you when you get into blended families, that by leading up front with with this guys, and that's why it's so important to have done your work before getting into this, because because we're not even talking about kids and dynamics with her and kids and then all of that stuff. We're just we're just simply talking about your relationship with her, which is already complex because you've got somebody else in in there. It's not as easy as just like it was before when two people are showing up and creating that that that safety and comfort with somebody, there's a lot more that goes into it. And if you've got a an ex that is problematic, that just creates an additional layer. And if you've got, if she's got, and her only example has been an ex that is problematic or an ex that doesn't show up in that way, and has not been doing things in a in a in a in a manner that is respectful with his new romantic interest, like there's all this uncertainty out there. And and you know, at this age now, she's likely also dated other other fathers that might not have handled this as well. So so there's all these complexities that that go with it and all the background, which we talk about all the time. So it comes down to effective communication, right? And what we need to provide her. Within the context of a relationship, or a woman in her feminine in the context of a relationship, and us as showing up as the masculine in the relationship.

SPEAKER_02 23:43

So if we were to break down this conversation a little bit, part of it is as a dad, I am presenting to her what she can expect, what the situation is, what sort of the parameters are. And that's mostly so she knows what to expect and she can feel safe.

SPEAKER_00 23:58

Yeah.

Transparency Without Emotional Dependency

SPEAKER_02 23:58

I imagine part of this conversation is, now that I've shared that with you, my dear, what would be helpful to you in order to feel safe? What do you anticipate needing? What can I do in this situation to really make you feel prioritized, to make you feel welcome, to make you feel like you're not a second-class guest citizen in this house when you're here to make you feel like you're not caught in the middle of something? And I think inviting her and asking her, and this is again, this is not a one-and-done question. This is something you want to continually come back to is what would help you uh feel more safe in these situations? What would what what could I do? I think that open invitation to her, because what women might hear if I'm like, hey, here's what here's what might happen, and here's what you do. She's like, okay, but how do I feel? What do I do with my feelings in the midst of that? Right. And if I'm saying, and if I just leave it at giving her the information, she could feel kind of like she's like, here's your here's your here's your canoe and here's your paddle. Good luck, you know, in navigating all of this. But if I say, if I open it up to what could I do to help you feel better in any of these scenarios? What could I help you do going forward? And this would be something that you want to check in on, obviously, whenever there is any conflict, any drama, anything coming out of left field, you want to continually say, Hey, what can I do to help you feel welcome, to help you feel prioritized? Asking that question, telling her those things, obviously, you know, you are important to me. You are a high priority. Obviously, I have to take care of my kids. Obviously, they they do come first because they are my dependents. But you, I do not ever want you to feel like you're out on the cold. I never want you to feel like you're by yourself. I never want you to feel like I don't have your back. What can I do to help you feel those things? Not think, not know, but feel. Because again, uh it this is all about what is a woman's experience when she's with the man, physically or just in general in the relationship. This woman wants to feel safe. This woman wants to feel like this beast of a man, you know, that she's with has got her back and that she's never going to be alone in these situations.

SPEAKER_01 26:17

Right. And wouldn't you say also that that's that applies to sharing how you're feeling also? Because if you're you're not able to be pressed, if you're not able to share your, if something's going on, right, and you're not able to share, or you're not sharing your feelings, she's gonna be able to, she's gonna pick up on that. And and and if in if you are able to to share it in an appropriate way, in a in a positive way, so that she is like I I guess it comes down to making her feel like she's safe, but also making her feel like she's like in the information loop, right? Like she's not just this outside part of your life that is, you know, just orbiting around, that she's in the information loop, that she's that that's gonna make her feel safer. And then if you're inviting her in with questions about, you know, well, what do you think about this, or what feedback do you have, etc., that's where you can deepen the relationship. But again, you got to lead with with that. So maybe what you're saying, Dallas, is lead, you lead with how you're feeling, and then uh uh if there is a situation, uh, or and then also ask her like what you can do to make her feel comfortable.

SPEAKER_02 27:28

Yeah, so this is a slippery slope. So obviously, we're not talking about the early dates, we're talking about once you're involved in the relationship. Once you're involved in a relationship, you're inviting her, you know, in into your life more closely. That woman does want to know what's up. If you're having a bad day because, you know, your ex-wife chewed you out, or you're having to go into the court, you know, because of this, or we've got this thing happening now, or whatever. She wants to know the information of what's going on because she doesn't want to be in the dark. She doesn't want to be guessing, she doesn't want to feel like she's on the outside and doesn't know what's going on. Okay, sharing with her what is going on, that's that those are facts, that's information. And you can also tell her, you know, and this is really draining me at the moment. So I'm sorry if I'm not coming with the normal smile on my face that I like to. Again, that's information. I'm telling her this is the state that I'm in. Like I've been up three nights in a row having to deal with this, whatever it might be, giving her information about that. Okay, that's all not only okay, but that is to be encouraged once you're inviting her into your life. Okay, the slippery slope, though, is you leaning on her for the emotional support. And that we need to make a clear distinction. Asking her for her input, what do you think about this situation? That's great. But if you're like, well, we really need to kind of like work through this or figure it out, okay, that just went into a whole nother territory where she's feeling like she's carrying the burden. And it is so, so fast and easy for us to slip from sharing with a woman what's going on into burdening her with some sense of responsibility of taking care of us as a man, recharging us, figuring out, you know, what should I do, picking up some of the slack. Okay, that's the part that we have to really, really, really guard against when we're having these conversations with the woman. You want to give her transparency. She has the knowledge, she she knows what's going on, she doesn't feel like she's on the outside, but you are not now treating her like some kind of a resource to support you, to energize you, to pick you back up. Yeah, that, and that's coming back to the original question of your structure and your frame. That structure and frame happens within yourself first, knowing that I want this woman to have visibility into me, but that I am a self-sustaining man. Protector and provider, I protect the first indication for the guys that don't realize this, like we always think of protecting and providing as being external. Your job as a man, number one, is to protect and provide for yourself. You know, that whole that whole analogy on the airplane where put on your own oxygen mask before you help anyone else. That's protecting and providing for yourself, literally. Protecting yourself from suffocation, providing for yourself the air that you need to breathe. You're providing those things for yourself before you help externally. In these situations, you have to protect and provide for yourself, and then protect and provide for the children, and protect and provide, you know, for your girlfriend. You can't when we stop doing that and we get into this weird kind of enmeshed coat, you know, like she's helping me feel better and this and that, it gets real messy. And it might feel okay in the beginning, but you keep going with that. It's gonna get muckier and muckier as you go.

SPEAKER_01 30:54

Yeah, that's a really great point. And and I didn't really I didn't even really think about that because that's what I see a lot of times with uh with the dads is it becomes and and usually it's just carrying over the same relational. Look, I was guilty of it too, right? Carrying over the same relational dynamic you had with your your ex and then into that new relationship as opposed to learning to stand. That's why I say go through the seasons, learn to stand on your own, figure your your your you know what out, and then you can show up in a different way. God, guys, listen, like the the the dads that I talk to that get into a relationship right away, and then that relationship fails, oftentimes describe it as being even more emotionally brutal and upsetting and heartbreaking than their divorce themselves. And it's usually because they have not, like they've just perpetuated the same same thing. And so what you're what you're saying is incredibly, incredibly important is that you've got to be, you've got to go and do that work so that you don't then go and do that and place that on her. Like, man, like literally, I was in, I had a a consult with a dad a couple of months ago, and his his new girlfriend scheduled the consult, and his new girlfriend was literally sitting on the other side of the monitor, and he was like asking her, like, what's my parenting time? When do I like when do I have the kids? Yeah, with the girlfriend. And she's like repeating. And I finally had to be like, all right, dude, like you've got to get your life together first. Like your girlfriend scheduled this, which is fine. I appreciate your cares about you. Your girlfriend is like, mom is a complete, complete night. This is a nightmare, and this is not like, and then your ex is like like you've got to like time out, get and I didn't say like you gotta get rid of your girlfriend right there, but like I was like, you need to like figure out what you've got going on first, because you can't even tell me when you have your kids. So, so so yeah, so do not like that. Is worst case. That's worse, that's that's like that's an extreme example. But what you're talking about, which is you know, you don't want you don't want to go from you don't want to go into territory, mom territory or a therapist. You don't want you want feminine feedback like you would get feedback from maybe another professional, if you can look at it that way, right? Like you appreciate what she like what she can bring to the table, what what her uh viewpoints are, etc. But you're not depending on her for it. That's why you've got to have a Dallas in your life, you've got to have a therapist, like whatever you need to have in your life to to bolster you, to bring you to where, you know, into the into the the man that you need to be in order to do that. You need to have that. She can't be that for you.

SPEAKER_02 33:46

Yeah, the the word you use there is dependent. If you are dependent, she's not a partner, she's some kind of a mother. You cannot be dependent on her. You need to be internally self-sufficiently dependent. You have to win that dependence on yourself, which makes you, when you're depending on yourself, that makes you independent. That is, that is where you have to start. And again, I mentioned it earlier. It's a slippery slope. It is so quick and easy because, particularly when you know, a woman's in love with us and she's starting to be very nurturing and very caring. It's so easy for us to relax. And you want to be able to relax. You know, she wants you as a man to be her man. And her man doesn't always have to be strong. He can relax. She, you know, he can allow her as a woman to take care of him and nurture him. That's all good parts of the relationship. But it is a very, very easy, quick place to slip over into dependency. That dependency really, really has to be fought against because once you start going down it, boy, it is hard to get back up on your feet in yourself. And you have to, and then you essentially, because let's just go into this slightly, if you find yourself, and this doesn't just apply with, you know, ex-wives, you know, being in the mix. This can happen at any point in dating for any man. You can get swept up in the wonderful vibes and love and feeling and affection and nurturingness and and and just generosity of the feminine nature, and because it is intoxicating, and you can essentially kind of like have one too many, so to speak, and then suddenly you've slipped into dependency mode. It's gonna happen sometimes, unfortunately, and you want to allow yourself to fully bask in the beauty of her feminine energy. But if you find yourself now kind of dependent, kind of leaning on her for things, and this is, I mean, this is where your stories about, you know, your boyfriend and girlfriend living together and the woman's paying all the rent. I mean, you know, that that's sort of an extreme example, but it happens all the time. And I listen to women talk about this. I'm like, how are you putting up with this? Well, they're in that mode of giving and being nurturing. As a guy, whenever you see yourself looking at her as being the provider for you, okay, you're no longer in your masculine frame. And you need to, you need to put that bottle down. You need to stop drinking the intoxicating effects of this woman, stand back up. And what you do is you make an apology to that woman. And you say, you know, you are amazing. And you know what? You kind of you kind of swept me off my feet here for a minute. And I realized I went into a passive place. I went into a more a more receiving place. And that is not where I want to be with you. And even almost more importantly, that's not where I want to be in myself as a man. So I'm sorry. You know, and you can make it kind of fun and say, like, you know, it's this, I'm also kind of blaming you because you're that, you're that wonderful, you know, and you feel that amazing. It doesn't have to be a bad thing, but you can say, you know what, babe, I need to get back up and go back to the gym. I need to get back up and get my butt back out there and make some money. You know, I need to get my life back on track and going in a direction. And I'm sorry it got knocked off course. I just want you to know I'm prioritizing that right now. Yeah, and that's course correcting. That's okay, right? Like we all have to do that. Exactly. And when we don't, just to be clear, that's when the woman starts to nag.

SPEAKER_00 37:08

Right.

SPEAKER_02 37:09

Because her instinct knows what track we're supposed to be on. But when it comes from her, we hate it. You know, we lock up those gears. We don't, you know, we don't want to hear any of it. Guys, that's because we're not looking at ourselves honestly in the mirror and asking ourselves, are you on track? Are you going so somewhere? Is your masculine frame something that is growing and getting stronger and more effective week by week by week?

SPEAKER_00 37:32

Right.

Protecting Kids From Gatekeeping Drama

SPEAKER_01 37:32

Yeah. Yep. And again, we're not saying you got to have all this dialed in, guys. This is a perfect example of, hey, you can what of course correcting and looking and and I and identifying within the relationship where it is that you're not showing up. Again, this needs to be, you know, looking at yourself in the mirror most of the time. If you're not getting the results that you want, you need to look at what you're what you are doing, right? In order to try to move things in the direction. And then if you're not still not getting it and you are trying, then maybe there's reason for that relationship to end. But again, it is self-reflection, it is looking at yourself. It doesn't mean not dating. You're not gonna like you're not gonna get to nobody. Dallas isn't, I'm not, like anybody is to 100% where we we've got it all figured out and and and we know how to get into the road, and we know how to have all the conversations, we know how to to mitigate. It's just it's never gonna happen. So that's why what your point, Dallas, about course correcting, like that's that is a sexy thing too for her when she sees her man go, hey, like I fell down, but watch, watch what happens when I get up.

unknown 38:44

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 38:44

Yeah, she will respect you even more when you take ownership and when you put yourself back on course. She will respect you even more. Yeah, this is this is and and an important thing is like nobody, no man has this all figured out. Anybody that is, yeah, take a step back because he's he's he's a little overinflated in the ego. And the and it's it's like that by design because if we had it all figured out, we would stop growing. And you're either growing as a man or you are shrinking and dying as a man. It's one of the two. You need to continue growing. That requires effort, that requires putting yourself out there, that requires facing fears, that requires all kinds of things. And and it requires going into the unknown. We are growing into a space that we've never been before. That that is that's part of it. We're not doing something wrong because we're going into the unknown and we're scared. We're doing something right because we're going into the unknown and feeling some, feeling scared. Right.

How Dating Can Be Used In Court

SPEAKER_01 39:41

And and so I want to transition this to the and part and why everything that that you've described that we've talked about up to now is important too, is because of your kids. Because what may happen if some if your ex just starts to act up, has whatever issues going on, then your kids are going to get put in the middle of this. And you need to know, you need to be able to be solid enough to work through that. Now, that could be the gatekeeping, as I as I as I alluded to in the beginning, where your kids start getting gatekeeped because of her issues going on. And then maybe you're gonna have to move from co-parenting to parallel parenting, which is you know, your environment is completely different, but that's okay. And you're gonna have to understand how to how to communicate that with your kiddos in a way that is kind and respectful, but also helps them to understand what the values are behind it in your household, which is going to be a positive thing for your kids because trust me, and and I can I can say this now after 13 years now, almost we're coming up on 14 years. Your kids see and they will figure it out eventually. So while I was in the middle of it and having to do this parallel parenting and that, my kids now see what that was about. Now, not everything, right? And I'm not ever gonna share, I'm not ever gonna share, and you're probably never gonna share all the intimate details of all of this stuff, but they look back and what they do see is they saw dad. They saw dad, whether you know he was showing up perfect or not showing up, but he was showing up, he was resilient, he was make the effort. Like your point about the effort thing is we as humans, and especially during difficult time like this, we want like I hear guys like, Well, why can't you just make it easy? Well, I I would I would I would encourage you to say thank you for not making it easy, because I'm going to be a better and bigger and stronger man coming out of this because you've made it so hard on me. Now, I know that's I know that's hard to wrap your head around guys during this process, but your kids, I promise you, if you are showing up in that solid, that solid way and building this foundation and getting through things like that, then man, like you have just modeled something that, and and and here's here's probably one of the main points I want you to take away, dads, is that you've modeled something for your kids that you probably weren't going to be able to model if your relationship with your wife, your ex-wife had stayed together. You're gonna model something so difficult and challenging that that you got through in a positive way and showed them resilience and coming out even better on the on the back end of this, that like very few other other ways in your life you would have been able to model for them.

SPEAKER_02 42:44

Yeah, yeah, that's huge. Yeah, the resistance is the opportunity to model strength because strength only grows from the application of strength.

SPEAKER_00 42:53

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 42:53

You our strength only gets stronger because we have resistance. So we that's what we call it resistance training in the gym. And that's just a physical scenario for us, you know, which can be extended as a metaphor to lots of other areas. We have to have resistance. This is what conflict is all about in relationships. It's the opportunity to grow stronger. Jude, I have two questions, sort of logistically, on on how it works in a divorce. One is does your relationship with a girlfriend ever get turned around on you in court as in he is, you know, he's brought this woman into our child's lives, and that's now creating more complications? And two, is it is it ever defined in in I don't know, the the divorce agreements or court orders or whatever they are, is it ever defined that what the parameters are for introducing a romantic partner into the children's life? I'd like to know what you know how that plays out.

Agreements On Introducing New Partners

SPEAKER_01 43:51

Yeah. Your first question about can it be used in court? Absolutely positively. And the way that it can be used is that he's not focused on the best interests of the kids, which is helping them to get stabilized and creating a life after divorce in his household. He's maybe found somebody else, he's married if he's trying to move or like doing any kind of crazy things. Or the big one is if he's diverting any kind of financial resources to a new new love interest. That's the really, really big one that the court then starts to go, like, what are you doing? We you haven't figured this out, you're not paying attention to your kids. You you might not be um taking advantage of or doing the the parenting time plan that you're supposed to be doing. So it can be a huge, huge distraction. If somebody wants to, and and and even if it is not a huge distraction, somebody can attempt to use that as a narrative in court. Something that we talk about all the time in the community is about the the narrative that's created in the in the courtroom or in in court. That is how family court works is through narrative. It's not through any kind of clear and convincing evidence or anything like that. It's a narrative. A judge is going to a judge is going to make a decision based upon, I call it the 51% rule rule, just that they believe the other party just a little bit more than you, because all they need to do is have a preponderance of evidence. So if you're distracted with uh a girlfriend or you're spending money and you're taking trips or whatever, and they're bringing that, it just goes to That's a preponderance of evidence that you're a bad dad or whatever it might be.

SPEAKER_02 45:38

So I would imagine jumping into a relationship pretty quick after the divorce would make that narrative easier for someone to spin up. Yep. Where if you take a year, like you're saying, to go through all of the seasons before you become involved with somebody, that narrative is a little bit harder to uh to draw.

SPEAKER_01 45:55

Much harder. At the very least, until your documents are signed and and and you're done and it's officially over. And again, we're not saying guys, don't date, don't have interactions, warm interactions, don't, you know, don't cultivate out there. But we're just saying focus on what you need to focus on long term and and bigger picture. And it's just going to serve you much better.

SPEAKER_02 46:20

So, what about the agreement of how significant or how boyfriends and girlfriends are going to come into a play? Is that is that ever part of the agreement?

SPEAKER_01 46:29

It's very common to have that in an agreement. It's virtually never ever executed or or or the court enforce enforceable. Thank you. That's the word I was looking for. The court really can't enforce any of that. So so oftentimes it will be put in. And I and I highly recommend putting it in for it just helps to keep both parties honest about things and hopefully doing the the the right thing with that. But when it comes down to it, if one or both parties just want to disregard it, going back to court on it will just piss off the judge. And so it's not enforceable.

SPEAKER_02 47:06

So okay, it might not be enforceable, but does it help, do you think, with the communication with your ex to go, hey, look, this is what we decided on. Does it does it provide, I mean, bet as opposed to just a blank canvas, do you feel that it can provide some element of structure to the conversations and go, look, you know, we talked about this, this is what we decided. Is that do you do you feel that that helps at all in the communication with your ex?

SPEAKER_01 47:31

I don't know if it helps in the communication, but the the the individuals that are healthy and doing this in a healthy manner, it's they're gonna do it anyway. And the ones that aren't aren't gonna do it any anyway. So so it's again, it's good to have in there so that you're you but it keeps the honest people honest, and they're just gonna say, hey, yeah, you know, I I agree to this, and you know, maybe it's uncomfortable, or maybe I don't want to do it, but really I know it's in the best interest of interest of my kiddos, and we're gonna spend the time talking to each other about our new romantic partners so that everybody feels comfortable.

SPEAKER_02 48:09

I I would imagine that would also be a useful component to share with the girlfriend. Say, well, you know, this is what we agreed on, you know, theoretically, this is what we're going to it. So this is the way we go about it. Now, we've had we've we've struggled in the past to be able to follow this to the letter, but this is in theory what we agreed to. I think that could be rather reassuring to somebody on the outside and provide a whole lot of clarity to at least say, well, this is what we both signed to, and we'll see, you know, whether, you know, how well it plays out. That that at least helps her know it's not just, you know, you're saying this, your ex-wife is saying that. It's like, well, we both said this, and I'm doing my best, I'm making a good faith effort to adhere to this because we agree this is the best for the kids. I I feel like that that could really, again, help provide a sense of safety for for the the the new person coming into the relationship. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 49:02

Yeah. I agree with that 100%. And that's one of the conversations that that I try to have up front early, which is kind of giving an idea of a of a timeline of what what this is gonna look like potentially based upon our mutual, our our mutual agreements and how we convert like how we feel about doing this. Like I'm gonna include her in, hey, you know, this is this is kind of how I've done it. I've found that it's either successful or this isn't successful. Yeah, what has been your experience, especially if she's been been divorced and and has kids, and this is this is what I feel is is an inappropriate timeline, and and let's talk about that. And then and then, but also know that I have a plan. This is kind of my plan. I'm I'm leading with this plan. And and and you don't have to, you don't have to worry, right? Like like you said, I don't want I don't want her to be constantly worrying about, well, like what's you know, what's gonna happen. Like if there's doubt, if there's ever ever doubt in her mind, then I feel like I've failed as as leading our in leading our relationship if there's doubt in her mind about anything that's going on, particularly with my kids or the timeline or or my ex or anything like that. If she's if she's got doubt, and then and then you're gonna see that. Like if you're gonna see if you're paying attention, guys, you're gonna see that there's that that that doubt. And it might show up in in in in in just not being available or not wanting to engage or being detached or or or the opposite, you know, like really acting out and trying to take control, trying to take control of situations, or like you said, nagging, or like maybe overly giving you advice.

SPEAKER_02 50:49

Yeah, you never want the woman you're with to doubt who you are and where you stand. And I I think I think when we were talking earlier about giving the woman transparency into the situation, but not putting dependency on her to necessarily have to fix anything, when she has transparency, that goes a long way to somebody not doubting her. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 51:10

Yeah. Yeah. So though that's really that's really all of it in a nutshell. Like you've got to be you've got to be the like I said, like you've got to be the hero of your own story, guys. And so that's why showing up in this, in this way is absolutely critical. And and and guys, dad's listening. If you if there's a theme you keep hearing from Dallas and I, it is like you've got to do the work up front in order for this to happen on on the back end. And doing and look, I know I know I am the poster boy for not doing that. Like, not if we could go back and maybe someday we'll we'll do this and like and then go through the timeline of all the crap that I did wrong in this. I'm truly the the poster boy of not doing this, not getting your stuff in a pile, not not not having those right conversations. I did this, I did all this wrong in my first relationships, right? And so, so like I tell my daughters, just learn from all the stupid stuff that dad did. Try not to do it again. Learn from me.

SPEAKER_02 52:21

Please. Yes, take all take all my broken bits. Yeah, and never ever forget any of them. Right, that'll make us feel good.

SPEAKER_01 52:27

You know what we should do? We should go back and interview all of my exes. Oh, that would be fun. Oh my god, would that be a nightmare? God, that actually that might be a I don't want to say fun because I don't know how fun that would be, but that would be informative and interesting to do. I don't know if we could yeah, well locate any of them outside of these.

Communities, Coaching, And Closing

SPEAKER_02 52:48

Let me just add to that, we we have to figure these things out on our own, and there's a limit to what we can figure out on your on our own. There's a there's you know, we we have to get real with ourselves, and it's not just and this isn't you do one and then you do the other. Get square with yourself, and then you go out into the wild world, and what does the military like to say? No plan survives contact with the enemy. So I've got it all figured out inside myself. I go out into the wild world and I find out I actually only have some of it figured out, kind of. Because I've I've hit contact with the enemy and my plan just you know broke into a bunch of pieces. You know, then you start looking like Jude showing his daughters, you know, oh don't you know, learn from all dad's mistakes. Look at his broken plans. Just I what I want to re-re-state is that we're never done growing. Part of it we do on our own, part of it we do out there in the wild in the field, recreationally, learning how to deal with the conflicts and learning along the way. It's not about doing it perfectly, it is about learning about yourself and doing it better and better because there is no upper limit to how authentic you can be. There's no upper limit to how strong and beautifully stabilizing your masculine frame can be. And there is definitely no limit to how far and exciting you can grow as an individual. And when you're on the path doing all those things, not just before you're dating, but while you're dating every woman, when you're asking yourself, how could I be communicating this better? How could I be making this woman feel even more safe and stable in this situation? How could I make my kids, you know, feel even better about, you know, in all of this stuff that they're having to go through? How can I be showing up even better with my ex to be more effective? It's always on us that we have to ask this question because that's the only thing we have control over. And it's and we have to prepare by ourselves, but we very much have to realize that like this is a shoot from the hip scenario in a lot of ways, and we have to learn along the way in route.

SPEAKER_01 54:50

Yep, absolutely. And if you're in that phase, guys, the seasons and still trying to figure it out, go to the divorced advocate.com, become part of the community there. We've got lots of guys that are that are in that phase. And or if you've kind of gone through and done some of that work already, go to black box dating and you're ready to take it to the next level. Really try to find a healthy, uh, functional, great, amazing, sexy relationship with a woman. Go to black box dating and get involved with Dallas's community because then you're just taking it to the next level. And again, getting getting involved with other guys, but also getting the help, like Dallas said. Like I wish I had a Dallas, it would have you know knocked off 10, you know, 10 years of my dating life to just get involved in the in in you with you and in your community and and and talk with you and not have to just sort through that with like my walking stick, trying to blindly figure out what I'm doing.

SPEAKER_02 55:57

Whacking young and unsuspecting females along the way. Yeah.

unknown 56:01

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 56:02

Well, and and if you're and if you're currently in a situation like we've described here, where you're looking to bring a woman closer into your inner circles of your family, where you're looking to how to navigate things with your ex, join the next Ask a Dating Coach session that we have coming up. Yeah. These are perfect situations for you to bring concrete, specific scenarios, just a one-off question. We love to dive into these. One of my favorite things to do is to help articulate for men the thoughts and the feelings in ways that are attractive in bold. And if if I'm allowed to say this, it's one of my particular talents is finding the words that men are looking for to speak to women.

SPEAKER_01 56:39

Yeah, absolutely. Positively. And our our next ask a dating coach is next week, next Thursday, April 16th. So the at the divorced advocate.com. If you scroll to the bottom, we've got an events, events tab. Click on that. You can download it right to your calendar. You can show up every single month, and then to um get involved. Do you have another cohort coming up?

SPEAKER_02 57:00

You I know you were talking about you, you're you're working on the new workshop series that's still that's in development. Yeah. There is I've I have weekly office hours that that the guys can come to on their price very reasonably. I don't remember off the top of my head what the prices are on the website. Go over to blackboxdating.com and you can check it out if you're looking for ongoing guidance and coaching. And in every single one of those weekly gatherings, I have a strategy talk on a specific topic. Last week, last week was a fun one. It was the hidden costs of a situationship. So when you find yourself into a situation ship, a lot of times, like, oh, it's convenient, it's nice, and all that. Well, we I I I dove into some of the hidden costs, uh, particularly for men, that you have in those situations. And, you know, spoiler alert, you lose your fire. That's the main thing, is that you find yourself kind of in a holding pattern, like draining your energy. And yeah. So I do a new strategy talk. They're only about 10-15 minutes long, uh, but we dive into it. And then we have fun conversation afterward, you know, diving into all the material. So jump on over to blackboxdating.com. Check it out.

SPEAKER_01 58:05

Yeah, and I'll tell you what, guys, a lot less expensive than the hundreds of first dates that I've been on. So go there and spend the little bit now. Otherwise, it's gonna drain you over the long run. Not drain you, but it's gonna cost you more over the long run for sure. And as always, share this far and wide. We've got, you know, continue to get more and more listeners and give us a star rating, give us a comment, keep the emails coming in. If you don't like what you heard today, email Dallas. If you like what you heard today, email me.

SPEAKER_02 58:34

Wait a minute. We switched it. It used to be the other way around. Always a pleasure, my friend. Thanks, dude. We'll talk to you next week.